What made you choose a Blackwing and what else did you consider?

[flipray]

If anybody's looking for a M5 CS, there's a couple dealers selling them for MSRP in FB WholeSale Car Club Group.

 

[Gweg_Jenningz]

I have yet to receive my 4BW but with that said.. this 4BW looks so amazing and here's why choose a blackwing.

For me, I love the aesthetics of a car/truck. The lines in the vehicle, the different angles of the vehicle, the shapes, and so on. This personality in me is what made me move from a 2011 Silverado to a 2019 F-150 and not the new Silverado. To me, that F-150 looked more like my first truck than the new model of that truck. And I freaking loved that old truck. But it was time for a new one.

So onto the 4BW..

This car hits a nostalgic tingle in my head as a Nascar fan. I'm a huge Nascar fan and my favorite drivers were Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. The way I see this 4BW is that it matches up with the old Chevy SS. It looks like the car that my heros drove in and won so many races with. I've never owned a performance car, and being a racing fan I find that kind of funny. I probably match up more with the classic southern redneck nascar fan with a truck category. But I love all racing to be honest. The look of this car has me so excited. Lol maybe I'm way off and others will think "wtf wear some glasses dude". Anyway, here's a couple of pictures I would compare.

 

[M2Cto4BW]

I have yet to receive my 4BW but with that said.. this 4BW looks so amazing and here's why choose a blackwing.

For me, I love the aesthetics of a car/truck. The lines in the vehicle, the different angles of the vehicle, the shapes, and so on. This personality in me is what made me move from a 2011 Silverado to a 2019 F-150 and not the new Silverado. To me, that F-150 looked more like my first truck than the new model of that truck. And I freaking loved that old truck. But it was time for a new one.

So onto the 4BW..

This car hits a nostalgic tingle in my head as a Nascar fan. I'm a huge Nascar fan and my favorite drivers were Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. The way I see this 4BW is that it matches up with the old Chevy SS. It looks like the car that my heros drove in and won so many races with. I've never owned a performance car, and being a racing fan I find that kind of funny. I probably match up more with the classic southern redneck nascar fan with a truck category. But I love all racing to be honest. The look of this car has me so excited. Lol maybe I'm way off and others will think "wtf wear some glasses dude". Anyway, here's a couple of pictures I would compare.View attachment 13507

View attachment 13508

I like it! Eventhough yes I don't see - check your vision ;-)
For me it's like a BTCC Chevy from a decade ago! Imagine if Caddy had a footprint there and could enter 4BWs!

 

[Deneed4spd]

I see several peeps here have driven bmws. Had a e36, e90 (loved the steering and suspension), had a f87 in DCT and missed the stick (sold during Covid for the same as I bought it 2 yrs before). Now looking for something fast, feel connection with the road through suspension and steering, and doesn’t feel like a pig. I am #1 at dealer for G87 but man it doesn’t looks so good and it’s so heavy for it’s size. Also have spots for CTR and CT5V. That comes to CTV4/5. I can see they are fast but with the mag suspension, do you feel connected to road or a bit dull like the new bmw? I like the old school suspension feel and worry all these fancy suspension parts will make the ride muted. Thoughts?

 

[Throat Yogurt]

I see several peeps here have driven bmws. Had a e36, e90 (loved the steering and suspension), had a f87 in DCT and missed the stick (sold during Covid for the same as I bought it 2 yrs before). Now looking for something fast, feel connection with the road through suspension and steering, and doesn’t feel like a pig. I am #1 at dealer for G87 but man it doesn’t looks so good and it’s so heavy for it’s size. Also have spots for CTR and CT5V. That comes to CTV4/5. I can see they are fast but with the mag suspension, do you feel connected to road or a bit dull like the new bmw? I like the old school suspension feel and worry all these fancy suspension parts will make the ride muted. Thoughts?

If those are your priorities, practically everyone says the Blackwings are more engaging to drive than the G87. The magneride dampers only enhance the feel, they don't detract. I have an S2000 and the Blackwing is every bit as fun to drive. Is the steering as responsive as, say, a Miata or Cayman? No, but it's better than any other sedan on the market.

I autocrossed an e36/4 for several seasons back in the day. My 4BW is as close to that feel as any other car I have driven since.

 

[cnofar]

I see several peeps here have driven bmws. Had a e36, e90 (loved the steering and suspension), had a f87 in DCT and missed the stick (sold during Covid for the same as I bought it 2 yrs before). Now looking for something fast, feel connection with the road through suspension and steering, and doesn’t feel like a pig. I am #1 at dealer for G87 but man it doesn’t looks so good and it’s so heavy for it’s size. Also have spots for CTR and CT5V. That comes to CTV4/5. I can see they are fast but with the mag suspension, do you feel connected to road or a bit dull like the new bmw? I like the old school suspension feel and worry all these fancy suspension parts will make the ride muted. Thoughts?

I'll chime in. I've owned 3 generation M3's, 3x S2000s, and a recent Subaru STI in the last few years. The 4BW suspension is by far the most compliant car of the ones I've listed above (the STI being by far the harshest stock suspension). No, I don't think the 4BW is dull suspension compared to the BMWs; but I haven't driving a G8X generation BMW yet. With the Cadillac Touring level is truly comfortable and complaint, unlike the BMW where Comfort level is still a bit stiff. I still feel connected to the road in the Cadillac and it does give a sense of solidity that I did not expect. To me it feels quite stiff structure (not ride) and this gives a sense of confidence when driving.

 

[M2Cto4BW]

I see several peeps here have driven bmws. Had a e36, e90 (loved the steering and suspension), had a f87 in DCT and missed the stick (sold during Covid for the same as I bought it 2 yrs before). Now looking for something fast, feel connection with the road through suspension and steering, and doesn’t feel like a pig. I am #1 at dealer for G87 but man it doesn’t looks so good and it’s so heavy for it’s size. Also have spots for CTR and CT5V. That comes to CTV4/5. I can see they are fast but with the mag suspension, do you feel connected to road or a bit dull like the new bmw? I like the old school suspension feel and worry all these fancy suspension parts will make the ride muted. Thoughts?

Former F87 6MT M2C owner (1yr 6k miles) and have zipped around Laguna Seca in a G80, F90, DCT F87 and Holiday Inn Express customer.

On track the G80 is really easy to drive fast. You just go, break, turn, go, break, turn. Honestly as a DD I don't know (apart from outright speed if that is your bag) how you can remotely push it on public roads and really enjoy canyon carving. I'd not want one over a 4BW.
I also did a Hyundai N track thing at Laguna and the Veloster N was my 2nd fave after the F87.

F87+
- 7250 redline and less sound deadening, more raw sounding (ofc not old school way)
- pocket rocket, wide body M2 vibe (I genuinely love and miss that, for me it's just such a cool 'little' car and weighs ~200lbs less and is ~11in shorter)
- Bimmercode

4BW+
- everything else that matters. I genuinely mean that and not in a justify my purchase way (which you always see lazy dullards try and use regardless of marque) cause who cares what internet randos think.
- the smaller and thicker tires, coupled with magna ride and adjustable suspension make it so much more compliant on city streets. I'm no longer worried about wrecking a rim on a pothole.
- I never got on with the M2C seats over long distances, I find the top line 4BW seats more comfortable. Although this is a real YMMV, as they are definitely firmer and some people may find that more uncomfortable, in which case get the mid tier.
- the shifter is a absolute joy, it is so very very nice to row the gears. Best shifter since my FD2 CTR (I used to live in England) I had in 08-09. Coupled with the better steering, when you are really on it, you can get into such a groove. It would be even better with another 500-750 rpms.
- put it in track mode, find a decent or better surface and you are as connected to the rode as you need to be in a modern sporty car. The sharpness, the exhaust pops and bangs, the hunkered down nature, are all there. If track mode is too much for the surface, use VMode to drop the suspension down a level and then you also have PTM to adjust the ability for the car to get loose as well.
- plus the dash, which is as modern as I need and lets you see are your vitals is excellent and rev match is a simple 1 button on/off.

There is a whole "things you don't like about your 4BW" thread (and I have a bunch of bitty dislikes I've added there) that is worth reading. But for me it really is those 3 F87+ items I miss, otherwise it's all good IMHO

 

[Deneed4spd]

Former F87 6MT M2C owner (1yr 6k miles) and have zipped around Laguna Seca in a G80, F90, DCT F87 and Holiday Inn Express customer.

On track the G80 is really easy to drive fast. You just go, break, turn, go, break, turn. Honestly as a DD I don't know (apart from outright speed if that is your bag) how you can remotely push it on public roads and really enjoy canyon carving. I'd not want one over a 4BW.
I also did a Hyundai N track thing at Laguna and the Veloster N was my 2nd fave after the F87.

F87+
- 7250 redline and less sound deadening, more raw sounding (ofc not old school way)
- pocket rocket, wide body M2 vibe (I genuinely love and miss that, for me it's just such a cool 'little' car and weighs ~200lbs less and is ~11in shorter)
- Bimmercode

4BW+
- everything else that matters. I genuinely mean that and not in a justify my purchase way (which you always see lazy dullards try and use regardless of marque) cause who cares what internet randos think.
- the smaller and thicker tires, coupled with magna ride and adjustable suspension make it so much more compliant on city streets. I'm no longer worried about wrecking a rim on a pothole.
- I never got on with the M2C seats over long distances, I find the top line 4BW seats more comfortable. Although this is a real YMMV, as they are definitely firmer and some people may find that more uncomfortable, in which case get the mid tier.
- the shifter is a absolute joy, it is so very very nice to row the gears. Best shifter since my FD2 CTR (I used to live in England) I had in 08-09. Coupled with the better steering, when you are really on it, you can get into such a groove. It would be even better with another 500-750 rpms.
- put it in track mode, find a decent or better surface and you are as connected to the rode as you need to be in a modern sporty car. The sharpness, the exhaust pops and bangs, the hunkered down nature, are all there. If track mode is too much for the surface, use VMode to drop the suspension down a level and then you also have PTM to adjust the ability for the car to get loose as well.
- plus the dash, which is as modern as I need and lets you see are your vitals is excellent and rev match is a simple 1 button on/off.

There is a whole "things you don't like about your 4BW" thread (and I have a bunch of bitty dislikes I've added there) that is worth reading. But for me it really is those 3 F87+ items I miss, otherwise it's all good IMHO

So how did you decide between a CT4 vs CT5?

 

[M2Cto4BW]

So how did you decide between a CT4 vs CT5?

I like smaller cars ( such is the state of 'small' these days) & I prefer handling over power. Although 472 is plenty for me & conversely the 5BW handles well I'm sure.

Personal preference, but it's why I prefer the M2C + Veloster N vs M3 +M5. I'm a hot hatch guy (Renaults & Hondas) at heart and for me the 4BW is a grown up version of that spirit - coming from the humble beginnings of the base CT4 (which is a fleet car/rental car) & creating this brilliant saloon car you can take down the backroads or hoon around a track.

 

[raptor5244]

So how did you decide between a CT4 vs CT5?

The cars are very different. Some have used the scalpel vs. sledgehammer to describe them, which seems like a good analogy. You just have to decide if you prefer a larger heavier supercharged torque monster or the smaller, more nimble sedan with a free reving turbo six. If you are only looking at it from a pure driving perspective, they are both fun. The 5BW it going to have the better V8 soundtrack and gobs of torque but in order to handle that power the car is bigger and heavier. You have bigger wheels/tires, tall gearing in the M6 to handle the torque load, heavier steering feel, etc. The power from the LT4 is fantastic but some like myself feel the limits are too high to fully enjoy the car on the street. The 4BW formula dials back the power levels but the car feels sharper, more tossable. With the shorter gearing, you can keep your foot in it longer as well.

There is no right or wrong, just preference. I think someone on the forum here has one of each since they are both great.

 

[668LT4]

For anyone considering a G80/82/87 against a Blackwing, allow me to share. I owned a CT4-V Blackwing May/June, and a 2022 M4 Competition xDrive August - a week ago. Both were sort of test cars as I continued to await my CT5-V Blackwing, and I gave both an honest chance to knock the 5 out of my mind. Did not happen, but both were magnificent machines. Specifically:

CT4-V Blackwing 6MT - fun, nimble car. I am only 5'7" 145 LBs. It felt just a bit tight for me, but my daily is a full size Sierra so I am used to a large cabin. Liked the seats, and loved the massaging function. They leaned towards the stiff side. The LF4 is plenty powerful, but IMO, does not feel as powerful as its numbers suggest. The BMW supposedly only has another 30HP+/-, yet it feels substantially stronger. Of course, we all know BMW is usually light on their numbers, and makes or exceeds power at the wheels. GM, I guess it is the motor alone and not at the wheels. In any event, the car was really awesome, and if there were no CT5-V Blackwing, maybe I would have kept it. Driver display and steering wheel design and size are big homeruns for the Cadillac.

M4 Competition xDrive - I am in a very small minority that loves the aesthetics of the car. I had never owned a BMW, and quite frankly, feel it is far and away the douchiest car brand going. But I don't care what other people think, I tried the car because I was attracted to it, and felt the quality of build and materials justified the price. 0 issues with paint quality and door alignment on the one I had, much better than my Blackwing in these regards. But regarding the car itself, the interior is an A+ for me. I had standard sport seats and Full leather in the car (complete dash, door tops, knee bolsters). Seats fit my frame better than any other I have been in. The Comp models are auto only, I found the ZF 8 speed phenomenal. Reviewers complain about the countless drive modes and options. As an owner who gets to learn the car and things become second nature, all of the adjustability is nice to have. The center stack and ID7 could not be better, IMO. Well, actually, I don't love all of the red lights, surprising they can't option in a feature to let you choose the center stack colors. Drive character - herein lies my issues with the car. It is just too perfect. Too clinical, too easy to drive. It ends up feeling muted. Steering is bland, I don't know what else to say. Sure, it reacts lightning fast, but you don't feel the front end. The thing is a rocket ship. It will crush a CT4 Blackwing in a straight line if that is your thing, and it will handle a 5 without issue too. The S58 is amazing. If that motor could be in the 6MT Blackwing (along with the seats and ID7), I would buy 2. But with the four wheel drive system (yes, it can be dialed back, but full 2wd mode turns off all stability), it is nowhere near as fun as the Blackwing. So why not get it in a manual? Test drove a 2021 M3 manual... I feel bad for guys who buy those and have never driven a Blackwing manual. Single worst aspect of the BMW? The sound. It is bad in a twofold way - first, even outside the car, the baby Blackwing trumps it. The BMW gets a "tinny" sound which I don't care for. The Blackwing is much more deep and rumbles better. The 2nd part of the BMW exhaust is quite possibly the worst feature of any car I have ever owned. Artificial exhaust sounds are loudly pumped into the cabin. It is horrendous. Combined with the Sport Plus engine mode, the drone is unbearable. Thankfully, the mode is easily disabled. (2) fully programmable fast buttons - M1 and M2 - is better than the Caddy lone V Mode. I had one set as my regular driving in full auto, and the other set to use with paddle shifters.

I would have been thrilled to keep the M4 for my wife. With AWD and all seasons, it is a badass 4 season car. She wanted nothing to do with that, so I sold it as my 5 Blackwing approaches.

If it were only between the CT4-V Blackwing and M4, which would I keep? The Blackwing, as for me it is a 2nd vehicle. I happen to love rolling in my full size Sierra on most days. The car is for fun. I smiled a LOT in the Blackwing, not so much in the M4. If it were my only daily vehicle, then I would absolutely keep the M4. The interior is light years better, the ride is acceptable (although stiffer than a Blackwing Tour mode). But the Blackwing(s) are so under the radar, and I much prefer that quality in anything I own.

 

[Deneed4spd]

Yep this will be my extra fun car. Hence shopping for a car that gives me a good feel of road and fun to drive. V8 does sound very tempting though. Been cross shopping from a CTR to a M2/M4 manual to a Blackwing but I have never driven a caddy. Last option was a GT4 but hell I don’t want to pay the crazy ADM and the dealer said I had to buy a $5k watch. What in the world???

 

[flipray]

I see several peeps here have driven bmws. Had a e36, e90 (loved the steering and suspension), had a f87 in DCT and missed the stick (sold during Covid for the same as I bought it 2 yrs before). Now looking for something fast, feel connection with the road through suspension and steering, and doesn’t feel like a pig. I am #1 at dealer for G87 but man it doesn’t looks so good and it’s so heavy for it’s size. Also have spots for CTR and CT5V. That comes to CTV4/5. I can see they are fast but with the mag suspension, do you feel connected to road or a bit dull like the new bmw? I like the old school suspension feel and worry all these fancy suspension parts will make the ride muted. Thoughts?

The mag rides are what sets these cars apart honestly. My gripes with the CT4 vs the M3 are I wish there were more space in the backseats with the CT4. There's a noticeable space difference between the two. That and wish the LF4 has the same tunability as the S58. The idea of being able to load a tune and get 100-200 HP on the fly is dope. I think the LF4 could use another 100-150hp bump and itll be more fun than anything out there.

The mag rides on the CT5 is amazing for the fact that it hides the 4200 lbs well. Car feels more like some cars that are in the 3400-3600 weight when you throw it around the corners.

 

[raptor5244]

The mag rides are what sets these cars apart honestly. My gripes with the CT4 vs the M3 are I wish there were more space in the backseats with the CT4. There's a noticeable space difference between the two. That and wish the LF4 has the same tunability as the S58. The idea of being able to load a tune and get 100-200 HP on the fly is dope. I think the LF4 could use another 100-150hp bump and itll be more fun than anything out there.

The mag rides on the CT5 is amazing for the fact that it hides the 4200 lbs well. Car feels more like some cars that are in the 3400-3600 weight when you throw it around the corners.

I personally don't feel the 4BW needs anymore power but if you check out the threads in the tech section it seems pretty easy to extract a lot of power from the LF4. I get what you are saying though. I used to own a 2002 C5 Z06. 405hp but it only weighed 3100lbs, which made the car a riot to drive. The improved chassis and mag-ride suspension technology do wonders for the cars nowadays but actually removing weight is so much better.

JB4 Validation and Test Results on CT4-V Blackwing

Today we tested the JB4 tuner beta unit on a 2022 CT4-V Blackwing M6, carefully and methodically experimenting with all the various calibration maps and custom fuel bias settings. In summary, this product works, and it works very well! Four baseline dyno runs varied from 399 to 407 whp. Final...

www.cadillacvnet.com

 

[Lee]

I drove an AMG C63, great performance.... road like a truck. Was waiting for a RS5. While waiting I began to read (and hear) raves about the Blackwings. Purchased a 22 CT4 BW. One of my best decisions. It lights up.

 

[white98ls]

I drove an AMG C63, great performance.... road like a truck. Was waiting for a RS5. While waiting I began to read (and hear) raves about the Blackwings. Purchased a 22 CT4 BW. One of my best decisions. It lights up.

Just wait for the new 4-cylinder hybrid C63 which weighs 4,650lbs (500lbs+ more than a 5BW!).

 

[ClassaxV]

I'm 6'4, 265lbs my very first manual was an 1989 RX7. Loved that car, so nimble! I then got it sportbikes and doing trackdays. So at my age recognizing it was getting harder to get out of my leathers and longer to shake stiffness after a trackday I wanted a car I could daily and take to the track.

Let me all so say I like doing a lot of my own maintenance and I hate it when things are unnecessarily complicated to showcase technology that has the answer to a question no one is actually asking. Having owned an M4 and an AMG I will NEVER buy another German auto again.

Hellcats get around a road course ok but it's an ugly bloated fight the entire time.
Was genuinely considering a C8 but the driving position was just too cramps plus my head was just floating below the ceiling so wearing a helmet would have been a nogo. Plus you sit kind of cockeyed on the car. The pedal box is off to the center a bit . I just didn't fit.

I consider a zl1 but after taking a 1le to the track I realized there can be such a thing as overpowered . Much like the 200plus hp liter bikes we have now to set fast times you leave the nannies ON. All this does is limit the car/bike back down previous Gen power level when you need it most on exit, otherwise with TC/DSC off it spins up, steps out and makes you work way harder than I need to for what's supposed to be fun. I've never been a straight line acceleration person for me it's all about the curves. What I found with the zl1 higher hp isn't really fully accessible anywhere. But the additional torque and weight burn through consumables ie brake pads, tires, and fuel way faster for what amounted to a 2 to 3 seconds a lap increase. That's huge in a race, but it is also a much more manic lap.

As a street car the Camaro has some serious challenges. The 1le package suspension may as well be fixed because it's HARSH on regular roads to put it mildly . Visibility is ok but the low greenhouse and high sills plus thick pillars make it a cave like in traffic. The long doors also make parking space a challenge to use. The trunk opening is too small for my daily use. But all would have been forgiven because it has a manual.

ATS V- perfect track and daily car, but nobody would sell them. They literally only started coming up for sale with the introduction of the Blackwing. Great car but not practically available.

The CT4 V BW checks all the boxes. Power , simplicity, ride comfort, Cabin comfort and practicality. Even ones I wasn’t considering like rarity. GM still sells more zl1 Camaros than CT4-V BWs. Yet it's a veritable sleeper. It's as nimble as the Camaro but without any if the drawback. Meaning unlike any other sports car or sedan currently available I can see traffic lights at the proper stopping position without having to duck my head.

As for power and practicality, if I drive like a normal human being and actually obey all traffic laws the thing is capable of getting mid 20s mpg all day in CITY driving and close to 30s on the highway.

Of course I can't do that, it sounds too good so you can actually go WOT , rip off a couple no lift shifts and shut it down at around 120. Trying that in the Zl1 1le on the street it always either wagged the tail or you run out of real-estate before you get to the best ones 2 to 3 and 3 to 4. It just isn't settled. At plus triple digits there is a lot to process. Where the BW is smooth and feels manageable and pushes you to ring it out. In the zl1 I always feel like I'm struggling to stay in it safely as my brain screams shut it down this is too harsh grip is getting sketchy.

Call me a wus if you want but I've never seen the need to have way more power than the vehicle can use. Could the 4BW use more power, yes I think 475 to 500 at the would be amazing but really 400 to 450 on a daily driver is the sweet spot.

Did I mention the manual transmission is amazing!

 

[Tall Steve]

I'm 6'4, 265lbs my very first manual was an 1989 RX7. Loved that car, so nimble! I then got it sportbikes and doing trackdays. So at my age recognizing it was getting harder to get out of my leathers and longer to shake stiffness after a trackday I wanted a car I could daily and take to the track.

Let me all so say I like doing a lot of my own maintenance and I hate it when things are unnecessarily complicated to showcase technology that has the answer to a question no one is actually asking. Having owned an M4 and an AMG I will NEVER buy another German auto again.

Hellcats get around a road course ok but it's an ugly bloated fight the entire time.
Was genuinely considering a C8 but the driving position was just too cramps plus my head was just floating below the ceiling so wearing a helmet would have been a nogo. Plus you sit kind of cockeyed on the car. The pedal box is off to the center a bit . I just didn't fit.

I consider a zl1 but after taking a 1le to the track I realized there can be such a thing as overpowered . Much like the 200plus hp liter bikes we have now to set fast times you leave the nannies ON. All this does is limit the car/bike back down previous Gen power level when you need it most on exit, otherwise with TC/DSC off it spins up, steps out and makes you work way harder than I need to for what's supposed to be fun. I've never been a straight line acceleration person for me it's all about the curves. What I found with the zl1 higher hp isn't really fully accessible anywhere. But the additional torque and weight burn through consumables ie brake pads, tires, and fuel way faster for what amounted to a 2 to 3 seconds a lap increase. That's huge in a race, but it is also a much more manic lap.

As a street car the Camaro has some serious challenges. The 1le package suspension may as well be fixed because it's HARSH on regular roads to put it mildly . Visibility is ok but the low greenhouse and high sills plus thick pillars make it a cave like in traffic. The long doors also make parking space a challenge to use. The trunk opening is too small for my daily use. But all would have been forgiven because it has a manual.

ATS V- perfect track and daily car, but nobody would sell them. They literally only started coming up for sale with the introduction of the Blackwing. Great car but not practically available.

The CT4 V BW checks all the boxes. Power , simplicity, ride comfort, Cabin comfort and practicality. Even ones I wasn’t considering like rarity. GM still sells more zl1 Camaros than CT4-V BWs. Yet it's a veritable sleeper. It's as nimble as the Camaro but without any if the drawback. Meaning unlike any other sports car or sedan currently available I can see traffic lights at the proper stopping position without having to duck my head.

As for power and practicality, if I drive like a normal human being and actually obey all traffic laws the thing is capable of getting mid 20s mpg all day in CITY driving and close to 30s on the highway.

Of course I can't do that, it sounds too good so you can actually go WOT , rip off a couple no lift shifts and shut it down at around 120. Trying that in the Zl1 1le on the street it always either wagged the tail or you run out of real-estate before you get to the best ones 2 to 3 and 3 to 4. It just isn't settled. At plus triple digits there is a lot to process. Where the BW is smooth and feels manageable and pushes you to ring it out. In the zl1 I always feel like I'm struggling to stay in it safely as my brain screams shut it down this is too harsh grip is getting sketchy.

Call me a wus if you want but I've never seen the need to have way more power than the vehicle can use. Could the 4BW use more power, yes I think 475 to 500 at the would be amazing but really 400 to 450 on a daily driver is the sweet spot.

Did I mention the manual transmission is amazing!

 

[raptor5244]

I'm 6'4, 265lbs my very first manual was an 1989 RX7. Loved that car, so nimble! I then got it sportbikes and doing trackdays. So at my age recognizing it was getting harder to get out of my leathers and longer to shake stiffness after a trackday I wanted a car I could daily and take to the track.

Let me all so say I like doing a lot of my own maintenance and I hate it when things are unnecessarily complicated to showcase technology that has the answer to a question no one is actually asking. Having owned an M4 and an AMG I will NEVER buy another German auto again.

Hellcats get around a road course ok but it's an ugly bloated fight the entire time.
Was genuinely considering a C8 but the driving position was just too cramps plus my head was just floating below the ceiling so wearing a helmet would have been a nogo. Plus you sit kind of cockeyed on the car. The pedal box is off to the center a bit . I just didn't fit.

I consider a zl1 but after taking a 1le to the track I realized there can be such a thing as overpowered . Much like the 200plus hp liter bikes we have now to set fast times you leave the nannies ON. All this does is limit the car/bike back down previous Gen power level when you need it most on exit, otherwise with TC/DSC off it spins up, steps out and makes you work way harder than I need to for what's supposed to be fun. I've never been a straight line acceleration person for me it's all about the curves. What I found with the zl1 higher hp isn't really fully accessible anywhere. But the additional torque and weight burn through consumables ie brake pads, tires, and fuel way faster for what amounted to a 2 to 3 seconds a lap increase. That's huge in a race, but it is also a much more manic lap.

As a street car the Camaro has some serious challenges. The 1le package suspension may as well be fixed because it's HARSH on regular roads to put it mildly . Visibility is ok but the low greenhouse and high sills plus thick pillars make it a cave like in traffic. The long doors also make parking space a challenge to use. The trunk opening is too small for my daily use. But all would have been forgiven because it has a manual.

ATS V- perfect track and daily car, but nobody would sell them. They literally only started coming up for sale with the introduction of the Blackwing. Great car but not practically available.

The CT4 V BW checks all the boxes. Power , simplicity, ride comfort, Cabin comfort and practicality. Even ones I wasn’t considering like rarity. GM still sells more zl1 Camaros than CT4-V BWs. Yet it's a veritable sleeper. It's as nimble as the Camaro but without any if the drawback. Meaning unlike any other sports car or sedan currently available I can see traffic lights at the proper stopping position without having to duck my head.

As for power and practicality, if I drive like a normal human being and actually obey all traffic laws the thing is capable of getting mid 20s mpg all day in CITY driving and close to 30s on the highway.

Of course I can't do that, it sounds too good so you can actually go WOT , rip off a couple no lift shifts and shut it down at around 120. Trying that in the Zl1 1le on the street it always either wagged the tail or you run out of real-estate before you get to the best ones 2 to 3 and 3 to 4. It just isn't settled. At plus triple digits there is a lot to process. Where the BW is smooth and feels manageable and pushes you to ring it out. In the zl1 I always feel like I'm struggling to stay in it safely as my brain screams shut it down this is too harsh grip is getting sketchy.

Call me a wus if you want but I've never seen the need to have way more power than the vehicle can use. Could the 4BW use more power, yes I think 475 to 500 at the would be amazing but really 400 to 450 on a daily driver is the sweet spot.

Did I mention the manual transmission is amazing!

I recently traded my ZL1 for a 4BW. I enjoy the 4BW much more for many of the reasons you listed.

It was fun to experience a 650hp supercharged V8 but it is over the limit for the street. The limits are so high that it is pretty boring to drive on the street. 80mph feels like 50mph. You hit triple digits without even trying. In the M6, the gearing is so tall that you wind up short shifting all the time otherwise you are doing 80mph in 2nd gear. Then, add in all the compromises you mentioned like visibility, small trunk opening, useless back seat, etc. and it gets old pretty quick.

The 4BW hits the sweet spot and checks all the boxes. The only thing I would change is swap the LF4 V6 for the LT1 V8. Not for the power since the power figures are roughly the same, but for the sound. The LF4 sounds ok but the V8 would have made it even better.

As for the C8, the looks are not growing on me. I just find it too busy then add in the lack of manual transmission and it just doesn't tug at the heartstrings like previous Corvettes have done for me.

 

[vj123]

I consider a zl1 but after taking a 1le to the track I realized there can be such a thing as overpowered .

I was seriously considering a ZL1/ZLE (as MY23 5BW might be outside my current budget) and these comments are making me having second thoughts. I am starting to think if 4BW would be a better fit for my use case (might drive the vehicle couple of times a week). I recently sold my M3 as it was missing the raw driving character but was more of a GrandTourer with just speed and luxury.

The 4BW hits the sweet spot and checks all the boxes. The only thing I would change is swap the LF4 V6 for the LT1 V8. Not for the power since the power figures are roughly the same, but for the sound. The LF4 sounds ok but the V8 would have made it even better.

That would have been a perfect vehicle.