Track Alignment Issues

[soulsea]

Hi,

So I just picked her up from service and track alignment as I was going to play around with her a bit at Roebling next week.

When I go her back, although the car tracks straight, my steering wheel is off center by an inch to the left. Aside from the OCD nightmare, I called them to ask them why this is and to tell them that I'll be bring it back for them to fix it.

The tech said that apparently there is some issue with one of the front calipers from the factory that's not allowing him to align it properly and it's the reason the steering wheel is off center. I'm not fluent in alignment dynamics or how to read alignment sheets. Can someone explain to me what is going on here, and most importantly, if I can track the car this way or is it going to behave weirdly?

Also they said that in order to be able to do the track alignment right and to make my steering wheel straight with it they'd have to replace the caliper, but that it wouldn't be covered under warranty. You can imagine my response to that.

Anyway, first things first ... how is my car going to behave on track with this setup?

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Did they zero the centering in the computer after the alignment? We have an electric steering box. I had a similar problem on the Camaro. Dealer got the specs, but couldn't align the wheel. Took it to my race guy and he reset the steering angle.

Pretty much zero chance your alignment issue is being caused by a brake caliper. That's pretty funny.

Your specs look fine. Nice you can get -2.5F on spindle only. For what it's worth, I like to run .125" total toe in the rear.

 

[soulsea]

Is the track alignment on the car correct tho?

@poor-sha

 

[shbox]

In my head trying to rationalize brake caliper interference with toe.

There may be some trick with the electric rack I don't know about (I know there is a position sensor), but looks like they got the wheel off center by correcting your toe (right side was farther off in the before measurement).

You have just a little more negative camber than what the owner's manual suggests. It may take some laps to see what works for you.

 

[rdollie]

So you had -2.5 degree camber BEFORE any adjustment...not what I'd expect (I think we typically see around -1.2 to -1.5 from a few data points I've seen in the past )

I can do most track prep in my garage but for suspension I think I'm going to do my next change at my local Firestone since they offer a lifetime alignment and I can go as often as I like for no additional cost (will allow me to get more aggressive on settings since there's also a Firestone not too far from the track to return my settings to a street spec)

 

[MatthewAMEL]

So you had -2.5 degree camber BEFORE any adjustment...not what I'd expect (I think we typically see around -1.2 to -1.5 from a few data points I've seen in the past )

I can do most track prep in my garage but for suspension I think I'm going to do my next change at my local Firestone since they offer a lifetime alignment and I can go as often as I like for no additional cost (will allow me to get more aggressive on settings since there's also a Firestone not too far from the track to return my settings to a street spec)

This is exactly what I do now. I have a TiresPlus (Bridgestone/Firestone) store near me. Bought lifetime alignment package. Since the Track Specs are in the manual, they will happily flip back and forth as many times as I want.

 

[shbox]

This is exactly what I do now. I have a TiresPlus (Bridgestone/Firestone) store near me. Bought lifetime alignment package. Since the Track Specs are in the manual, they will happily flip back and forth as many times as I want.

That's nice as long as you trust them. The printout above is from a Hunter machine that basically tells you everything you need to do as you go along (including what size tools you need to fit on the bolts). So, your tech might not even have to be that smart, LOL.

 

[poor-sha]

The alignment in the after report looks correct, but it assumes the dealers alignment rack wasn’t out of calibration. It looks like they had the wheel slightly off center when they aligned the car. I don’t understand what the caliper has to do with that.

Assuming the issue with the wheel being off center to the left isn’t caused by the rears, it means that when the steering wheel is straight your front wheels are actually turned slightly to the right.

It’s simple to make a small adjustment to try and fix it. On the RF loosen the jam nut and turn the toe link one “flat” on the adjuster to make it shorter. As I recall the link screws in to the part attached near the wheel, so if you are facing the wheel you turn right. Also make sure you are first taking any slop out of the heim joint at the knuckle as it will also pivot some first. Then tighten the jam nut back up while holding the adjuster so it doesn’t move.

On the LF do the same thing but you want to lengthen the adjuster by one flat which should be a left turn. Also, make sure you have something or someone holding the steering wheel where you want it. The main thing is to make small adjustments that are matching in each side. Take detailed notes in case you need to reverse it. It also helps to use a paint pen to color one of the flats so you know how much you moved things.

It looks like you’re off a small amount so one flat each side should be enough. If it helps but not enough do another flat. If it doesn’t help I would put it back the way it was because that likely means the rear wheels are pointed slightly left.

As long as you get the wheel back straight I’ve never had to reset the sensor. However, you having the wheel off center will likely cause ABS and Stabilitrak to over react.

 

[rdollie]

That's nice as long as you trust them. The printout above is from a Hunter machine that basically tells you everything you need to do as you go along (including what size tools you need to fit on the bolts). So, your tech might not even have to be that smart, LOL.

Used them on both Coasts for 30 years. Always have advanced Hunter setups and never had even a scratched wheel so it's a no-brainer to pay about 200 for unlimited lifetime alignments from people who specialize in them and do them frequently enough they're going to quickly catch any calibration drift with their equipment.

 

[soulsea]

So I’m at the dealership trying to get this sorted out. Apparently the service advisor misspoke, there is no issue with the caliper. The tech tells me that the problem is that apparently our cars don’t have caster adjustment, only camber and toe, and I’m told that one of my casters is slightly off from the factory and that’s what’s causing the issue. Does that sound right?

Anyway, I told them that I’m not going to accept my steering wheel off center, showed the tech @poor-sha post, and they have it on the machine as we speak trying to get it right.

Tbc …

 

[Berserker]

Apparently the service advisor misspoke, there is no issue with the caliper. The tech tells me that the problem is that apparently our cars don’t have caster adjustment ...

Caster / caliper.

To-MAY-to / to-MAH-to.

 

[Neveready]

Caster is not typically adjustable, not sure why that would be relevant. What's with this tech?

What's off about this whole thing is that you had a track alignment from the factory. Hopefully he gave you the original printout which showed the factory alignment. He may have tried to realign things a few times which would explain a factory track alignment.

I've been in a similar situation such as yourself. When you're ready to get the street alignment back, I'd suggest going to get an alignment from someone else, another dealer or shop. Or if your not comfortable with the alignment you got, I'd find a good alignment specialist, there are shops that only do alignment.

 

[soulsea]

Ok so they realigned the car and now the wheel is straight. Tech also said that the caster being out of spec from the factory isn’t why the wheel was off center.

The tech seems to think that there was something wrong with how their machine was calibrated because when he put the car back on it today the starting reading was different than where it ended on Friday. I asked him how can he be confident that the machine is reading things right this time and he said he believed it was because the car tracks straight and wheel is centered.

Anyway, I’ll slap her around the track tomorrow and see how she feels. I could start a ticket requesting GM to remedy the fact that my caster is a smidgen off spec on one side, but I’m wondering if there’s a valid reason to do so. The car drives straight so I might just leave it alone.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Glad they got your wheel straight.

IMHO, it's time to find a place to get your alignments done. Ask around at your track event. There has got to be a local guru.

Personally, for a track alignment, I would never accept what they gave back to you. A good shop with a good tech will not stop until the L/R Camber front and rear matches.

 

[Neveready]

Ok so they realigned the car and now the wheel is straight. Tech also said that the caster being out of spec from the factory isn’t why the wheel was off center.

The tech seems to think that there was something wrong with how their machine was calibrated because when he put the car back on it today the starting reading was different than where it ended on Friday. I asked him how can he be confident that the machine is reading things right this time and he said he believed it was because the car tracks straight and wheel is centered.

Anyway, I’ll slap her around the track tomorrow and see how she feels. I could start a ticket requesting GM to remedy the fact that my caster is a smidgen off spec on one side, but I’m wondering if there’s a valid reason to do so. The car drives straight so I might just leave it alone.

If their alignment machine is off calibration you may not have a problem with your caster, and your alignment printout will no doubt be different than what it actually is. It would probably be best if you got an alignment from a place that has a properly calibrated machine after your track day.
You should be fine to go rip it around the track.

Have fun out there.

Godspeed

 

[dribs15]

So I’m at the dealership trying to get this sorted out. Apparently the service advisor misspoke, there is no issue with the caliper. The tech tells me that the problem is that apparently our cars don’t have caster adjustment, only camber and toe, and I’m told that one of my casters is slightly off from the factory and that’s what’s causing the issue. Does that sound right?

Anyway, I told them that I’m not going to accept my steering wheel off center, showed the tech @poor-sha post, and they have it on the machine as we speak trying to get it right.

Tbc …

BTW, I do give credit to the dealer/techs for listening to soulsea and being open to looking at poor-sha's post and continuing looking to address/rectify the situation.

I dealt with a dealer's service manager about 6 years ago who would not even consider what I was telling him which was straight from an online forum... and after pushing and pushing on him...I ended up having them call me to say there was suddenly a new update to address my problem (no there wasn't and he knew it... it was the one I pointed out to him originally and even told them where to look) and Voila! my minor issue was taken care of as it should have been in the first place.

Epilogue: his girlfriend is a long-term good client of mine (they weren't going out way back then) and so now he is too!

 

[poor-sha]

So, a couple of things. As others noted the caster isn't adjustable on our cars (it is on Corvettes) so there's no point chasing it. Unless there is a huge difference L/F in caster the main difference you will feel is how much of a self-centering feel you will get when driving.

Also, the lift being level, the car being straight on the lift, tire pressures, the amount of fuel or other weight in the car, and whether they added weight in the drivers seat to simulate the driver, will all affect the alignment. So it's worth thinking about if any of that was different.

 

[Carguyshu]

Glad they got your wheel straight.

IMHO, it's time to find a place to get your alignments done. Ask around at your track event. There has got to be a local guru.

Personally, for a track alignment, I would never accept what they gave back to you. A good shop with a good tech will not stop until the L/R Camber front and rear matches.

the front and rear camber is SUPPOSE to be different per the owners manual. it is pretty damn close.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

the front and rear camber is SUPPOSE to be different per the owners manual. it is pretty damn close.

Not side to side, it's not. Of course the FRONT and REAR camber settings are different.

 

[soulsea]

Ok so we’re all clear … if I’m slower than a GT2RS this is why.