Former/current BMW owners: your thoughts?

[BimmerFan]

I currently have a BMW G82 (new gen) M4 with the six speed manual. This is my second G82 M4, probably my 20th BMW. I like Bimmers.

I've also had 5 Corvettes. Some Pontiacs, some other Chevys. I'm very familiar with GM. I'm not scared.

I'm thinking about the CT5 BW because I prefer larger cars with V8 engines. It has to be a manual. Other than that, options are of little value to me. We inherited an XT5 a couple of years ago that I was not impressed with at all, so honestly that has me just a little wary. I think it was a 2018, the infotainment sucked, the seats sucked, the performance sucked and the ride sucked and it was loud on the road. And it didn't even get good gas mileage. I realize that it's just an inexpensive crossover, not a real car, but man did it suck.

The M4 has been the best BMW I have ever owned, maybe... maybe second to the E39 M5. The ride is better in the M4. The M5 was quieter. I'm not a young man any more, and I'd like something a bit quieter and perhaps a smidgen more comfortable and easier to get in and out of without grunting.

I'm interested to hear the opinions of current CT5 BW owners who came from (or still own) BMWs. Good or bad, please, I'm all about getting information before spending $100K.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[rdollie]

I too like(d) BMWs. Still have a M3 and G05 twin-turbo V8 X5 in the fleet. My 5 BW is by far the most engaging car I've driven in years. It's not a coincidence that some reviewers dubbed it the spiritual successor to the e39 M5. Many believe it's what Ms would feel like today before they lost focus.

I have over 26k miles on mine with the greatest smile/mile quotient in my life. No regrets (well, other than maybe I should have gotten the bronze wheels.)

 

[ukcats12]

From a driving point of view the 5BW is better in every way except maybe 0-60 times (not sure what the base M4's time is). The ride is better, the handling is better, the chassis is better, the manual transmission is tons better, the engine is better. Materials on the interior might be a tiny bit less nice than the M4. Subjectively, the 5BW also looks a hell of a lot better.

I have a feeling once you drive a 5BW you will forget the M4 even exists.

 

[rdollie]

I agree and to over-simplify, BMW makes the better luxury car and Cadillac make the better enthusiast's car. The materials in the BW are good but there's not as much as in the BMWs and not nearly the same focus on cutting edge interiors (new 24.5'+ interior will close the gap quite a bit I think.)

 

[quikag]

You will love a 5BW and it has zero to do with a '18 XT5. I just won the fastest time of everyone who ran COTA at the M track event in Austin this past weekend and I really enjoyed the new M2 on the autocross course and beating on the new M3 comp and M4 comp in lead-follow sessions on the 3.4 mile course. But, the drive to and from Austin (from DFW) in my '22 CT5-V Blackwing confirmed I won't be trading it in anytime soon.

(That said, I do maybe want to add an M2 as a track day fun toy as I really liked it, but my local dealer said 18-24 month wait. Gulp.)

 

[668LT4]

I can answer with more than speculation.

Before my 2022 CT5-V Blackwing 6MT, I owned a 2022 M4 Competition xDrive. Granted, it was an auto, but I put 2000 miles on it.

I happily sold it at a loss and took the Blackwing I had on order. For driving character, no comparison. The Blackwing makes me smile all the time. The M4 was synthesized (literally through the speakers too, but you already know that) and numb feeling. Sterile. The Blackwing is alive. I feel vibrations. I feel my front tires on turns. I feel the back end all the time and it is utterly intuitive. And the exhaust sound is as good as it gets, just the opposite with the M4.

Fit and finish, materials quality - M4 wins here, hands down. The Blackwing is nice, the M4 is exceptional (pre-widescreen TV display, of course). I wanted a drivers car. The M4 is simply not that. It is an executive GT type cruiser. Not at all what I wanted, and it was an expensive lesson. But my Blackwing makes me so happy, I could care less about the lost $ on the BMW. The M4 excited me under full acceleration in a straight line. The Blackwing excites me just idling along, and blows my mind when driving in a spirited fashion.

With you comparing manuals only, it is an even bigger gap.

I applaud you for considering the switch. Most "BMW guys" refuse to even test one, and are just so proud about their German machines. What's even more funny is their very poignant comments about the car, despite having no seat time. But I owned both, have no given allegiance to either, and can honestly say that for driving, there is no comparison in these cars.

 

[rubberduck]

I would keep your BMW. My 5BW is the worst car ever, do not buy one.

 

[ukcats12]

literally through the speakers too, but you already know that

Doesn’t the Blackwing do this a little too? I could have sworn the first Savagegeese review mentions it does.

 

[668LT4]

Doesn’t the Blackwing do this a little too? I could have sworn the first Savagegeese review mentions it does.

I believe it amplifies actual exhaust notes a small amount. The BMW creates its own artificial exhaust sound and very loudly through the speakers. It is the worst sounding exhaust from the inside of a car I have ever heard. Thankfully there is a button to disable the "feature". The outside is not much better. Even a 4 Blackwing blows the BMW exhaust sound away.

 

[BimmerFan]

I would keep your BMW. My 5BW is the worst car ever, do not buy one.

Thanks. Care to elaborate?

 

[jbawden]

@BimmerFan ^^^ it's good 'ol internet sarcasm

 

[rubberduck]

@BimmerFan ^^^ it's good 'ol internet sarcasm

Trying to throw him off track so there are more for me and make him suffer with the BMW.

 

[PL69]

You will love a 5BW and it has zero to do with a '18 XT5. I just won the fastest time of everyone who ran COTA at the M track event in Austin this past weekend and I really enjoyed the new M2 on the autocross course and beating on the new M3 comp and M4 comp in lead-follow sessions on the 3.4 mile course. But, the drive to and from Austin (from DFW) in my '22 CT5-V Blackwing confirmed I won't be trading it in anytime soon.

(That said, I do maybe want to add an M2 as a track day fun toy as I really liked it, but my local dealer said 18-24 month wait. Gulp.)

Don't know if you've driven the 4BW but it's probably a very good match for the M2 but with an much better suspension and brakes and that's without to say steering/shifter feel.

 

[white98ls]

I owned an E39 M5 from 2009-2015, an E90 M3 MT from 2016-2020, and have recently driven an M3 Comp RWD. The E39 M5 was my favorite car I've owned, and I've usually paired up a fast V8 sports sedan with a light, agile 4-cyl sports car (currently and maybe forever a Lotus Elise). I wanted a more modern version of the E39 M5 while such things (read: V8s, ideally with a manual) are still around.

I've had my 5BW for 6 months now and this thing is EXACTLY what I was looking for - an E39 M5 modernized by 20+ years and cranked up several notches. It reminds me so much of the E39 - the silky ride, the torque in any gear, the understated style, the solid ergonimics and deft handling. Except that all of these are frankly far better than the E39 ever was (except maybe style - the E39 is truly timeless).

It's fast as all hell. The shifter, handling, and braking are far, far superior. The sound is simply savage. Even the ride is better despite pulling well over 1.0g on the skidpad. It is everything I had hoped it would be and much more. When your biggest gripes are turning radius and gas tank size, that's pretty good. And it's sure to be more reliable than the E39 M5, the most maintenance/repair-heavy car I've owned.

The M3 was good but it really didn't impress me. The 5BW communicated better, had a much better-sounding and more exciting engine, a great manual shifter and clutch, and looks I'm not embarrassed by (no offense meant - hey my 5BW replaced a last-gen Civic Type R). And frankly I'd gladly trade a few lower-grade materials for what is a far more functional and less confusing interior. I'm not quite 40, but you don't have to be an old fart to agree that sometimes a physical button to change climate controls works perfectly fine.

This is my first American car and first new car, and it's been simply fantastic to drive and own. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

[BimmerFan]

@BimmerFan ^^^ it's good 'ol internet sarcasm

Ah, my absence of familiarity with you guys here, I didn't catch that.

 

[bloominguez]

Past thread, with my thoughts...

Why choose a CT4 BW over a new BMW M3? Sincerely asking.

I had no idea anyone would buy their first manual in today's environment. I assumed 100% of today's 3-pedal buyers did so purely out of nostalgia since we are literally a dying breed. You guys have my utmost admiration and respect. As a younger guy who learned manual less than ten years ago...

www.cadillacvnet.com

 

[PL69]

I currently have a BMW G82 (new gen) M4 with the six speed manual. This is my second G82 M4, probably my 20th BMW. I like Bimmers.

I've also had 5 Corvettes. Some Pontiacs, some other Chevys. I'm very familiar with GM. I'm not scared.

I'm thinking about the CT5 BW because I prefer larger cars with V8 engines. It has to be a manual. Other than that, options are of little value to me. We inherited an XT5 a couple of years ago that I was not impressed with at all, so honestly that has me just a little wary. I think it was a 2018, the infotainment sucked, the seats sucked, the performance sucked and the ride sucked and it was loud on the road. And it didn't even get good gas mileage. I realize that it's just an inexpensive crossover, not a real car, but man did it suck.

The M4 has been the best BMW I have ever owned, maybe... maybe second to the E39 M5. The ride is better in the M4. The M5 was quieter. I'm not a young man any more, and I'd like something a bit quieter and perhaps a smidgen more comfortable and easier to get in and out of without grunting.

I'm interested to hear the opinions of current CT5 BW owners who came from (or still own) BMWs. Good or bad, please, I'm all about getting information before spending $100K.

Thanks,
Michael

View attachment 20987

I think I can talk a bit about the G8X, I've owned a 2022 G82 Convertible, a 2023 M4 CSL, a 2023 M3 6MT and before that I owned a 2020 M340i, a 2018 M2, a 2015 M235i and a 2008 135i.

All except the 135i were driven on track for thousands of miles/kms. The 135i was only draged raced.

The G8X is phenomenal car, it's the hepitome of what a "modern and trendy" sports coupe/sedan can be. If you look at the spec sheets the G8X is the better car.

This is were it ends, everything that the G8X should be from a driving dynamics is what the Blackwings are. The BWs give you that huge slap in the face and wake you straight up with what's important when you actually drive a car, they make you forget the badge on the front, the interior materials, the size of the screen or whatever point you might nag about vs other cars. Gadgets, tech, merino leather, aligned panels don't make the driving experience.

The new M's are marketing canvas on wheels and it's only when you drive a car that was put together by a bunch of true enthusiasts instead of a team of sterile position diggers assisted by AI that you realize it. It's hard, it's truly very hard to change our perception because BMW are masters of the kool-aid mix. Even after buying and driving a 718 GTS I still taught that my next BMWs would be great... The Blackwings are closer to a Porsche in the way they are built and the way they drive, absolutely no kidding.

Come to the dark side with us

 

[Jim2000]

After having owned multiple M cars, S cars, and AMG cars, the CT4-V Blackwing is my favorite car of all. Why? It steers, handles, and accelerates better than any car I have owned. It is truly V ultimate driving machine.

 

[DAC17]

I can answer with more than speculation.

Before my 2022 CT5-V Blackwing 6MT, I owned a 2022 M4 Competition xDrive. Granted, it was an auto, but I put 2000 miles on it.

I happily sold it at a loss and took the Blackwing I had on order. For driving character, no comparison. The Blackwing makes me smile all the time. The M4 was synthesized (literally through the speakers too, but you already know that) and numb feeling. Sterile. The Blackwing is alive. I feel vibrations. I feel my front tires on turns. I feel the back end all the time and it is utterly intuitive. And the exhaust sound is as good as it gets, just the opposite with the M4.

Fit and finish, materials quality - M4 wins here, hands down. The Blackwing is nice, the M4 is exceptional (pre-widescreen TV display, of course). I wanted a drivers car. The M4 is simply not that. It is an executive GT type cruiser. Not at all what I wanted, and it was an expensive lesson. But my Blackwing makes me so happy, I could care less about the lost $ on the BMW. The M4 excited me under full acceleration in a straight line. The Blackwing excites me just idling along, and blows my mind when driving in a spirited fashion.

With you comparing manuals only, it is an even bigger gap.

I applaud you for considering the switch. Most "BMW guys" refuse to even test one, and are just so proud about their German machines. What's even more funny is their very poignant comments about the car, despite having no seat time. But I owned both, have no given allegiance to either, and can honestly say that for driving, there is no comparison in these cars.

View attachment 20989

View attachment 20990

Although I know looks are personal preference items, the 5V (BW or not) looks way better then the bucktooth M3/4.

 

[565565]

I don't have a direct comparison to a G8x M3/M4 but I got the wife an LCI X3M comp that I drive alot as well.

I previously posted my thoughts between the two.

Here it is copy and pasted:



The Blackwing wasn't a car that instantly blew me away like the X3M comp did. I was immediately impressed with what a feral beast that SUV could be despite its body shape and weight. I had the X3M Comp for my wife for about 2 months before the Blackwing arrived so it was an immediate point of comparison. All the reviews talk about what a beast the CT5 blackwing was. I was naturally surprised by how civil and refined the Blackwing felt, to the point of being subdued.

Going hard on a backroad, both vehicles will thrill and excite. There is so much power and grip in both vehicles. The X3M would probably be faster in my hands on a back road given the AWD putting down the power well, the amazingly fast ZF 8 speed and the superior visibility. A good driver would definitely be faster in the Blackwing, but there is definitely a greater sense of fear and danger there too. Both cars are talented opera singers on the open road, stirring the right emotions and captivating the soul. The Blackwing hits higher notes here and there but the X3M is close enough that it's shocking.

The difference is when you come up on a car doing sensible speeds on that back road. The BMW falls silent, frustrated that the fun is over. The Blackwing seems to do the same at first. Listen closely however and one realizes that she is still there, singing that same wonderful tune as before. Now, instead of belting it out at the top of her lungs, she's whispering it sweetly into your ear. The steering still communicates with light tugs in your hand. The body motions are still perfected controlled. The exhaust still rumbles with perfectly rev matched down shifts (by the car not me) like distant thunder. It will do this even at 1500 RPMs coming off the throttle. How aggressive you are the revs merely determines how far that tempest sounds, but it is always there. At legal speeds the Blackwing shows off its greatest talent, it's ability to entertain at 2/10ths. Driving the Blackwing requires so much more of my attention. Occasionally I drop of my wife at work and use her car to make the commute to even out the miles between the cars. I'm always flabbergasted about all the extra roadside stuff I notice in the X3 that I just never paid attention to while driving the Blackwing. Was that church always there? I don't ever remember seeing this overlook. It's not just the higher vantage point, because it's all stuff visible from any ride height.

At the end of the day, the X3M feels Iike a vehicle that a large team of people allocated some of their time and resources to, while the Blackwing feels like a vehicle that a small team of people devoted all of their effort and passion to. When asked to perform, both the X3M and Blackwing will sing beautifully. However when doing the banal every day chores, the X3M becomes a perfect domestic, and you nearly forget that it's anything other than another X3. The Blackwing can nearly those same chores, but she is always humming that melody while she is working. Even when doing the most boring of tasks, she never ever lets you forget that she was, is, and always will be, an absolute superstar.