Former/current BMW owners: your thoughts?

[quikag]

Don't know if you've driven the 4BW but it's probably a very good match for the M2 but with a much better suspension and brakes and that's without to say steering/shifter feel.

That’s a good point. A 4 and 5 BW does have a nice ring to it.

 

[FISH22]

Lots of great posts here, so I won’t go too into depth on my decision.

I owned a G80 Comp (‘21 RWD) for 2 years. Put 19k miles on that car. Loved it. Was my second M car, first being a manual E90.

Bottom line: my manual 5BW is absolutely the most fun and special car I have ever owned. I daily mine, 50 miles a day, so lots of seat time in the last few months. I can’t say special enough. Even after being in it all week for nearly two hours a day, I’m still itching to get out in it on the weekends. Never felt that sort of appetite in the G80.

 

[minn19]

I’ve owned a ton of BMWs, most of them F gen cars. Multiple F80/82s, both DCT and manual with a mix of base, comp and CS versions. The only one I ever really missed and regretted trading in was the M4 CS. I did test drive a used M2 CS and regretted not buying it.

They really screwed up IMO on the G series with not continuing to develop the DCT and sticking the ZF8 in instead. I don’t care if it shifts close to as fast, it’s not nearly as engaging/fun, especially the downshifts. To be fair, I feel the same way about the BWs A10 compared to BMWs DCT or Porsche’s PDK. Cadillac can be forgiven as they haven’t hiked prices anywhere near BMW or Porsche has. BMW also haven’t put any development into their manuals, they feel like mush and you can only get a manual in the base detuned G80/82s. I won’t even get into the looks as that is well covered and I don’t think it is even it’s worst problem. I‘m not a fan of digital dashes, but Cadillac did a much better job than BMWs reverse speed/tach gauges on a tacked on curved mini tv on the dash.

GM stole BMWs formula and focused on a great chassis, suspension and steering feel. They didn’t care about the almighty 0-60 time that it seems BMW is chasing now (and the KITH/influencer buyers) . Nearly every M car can be summed up with the same review. They are extremely fast/capable, generally ride like crap and are devoid of feeling and fun. Oddly, you have to get a CS to get a well sorted M car now.

Unfortunately GM hasn’t capitalized on sales as they don’t market there cars worth a shit and other reasons.

 

[MookdocOE]

From a driving point of view the 5BW is better in every way except maybe 0-60 times (not sure what the base M4's time is). The ride is better, the handling is better, the chassis is better, the manual transmission is tons better, the engine is better. Materials on the interior might be a tiny bit less nice than the M4. Subjectively, the 5BW also looks a hell of a lot better.

I have a feeling once you drive a 5BW you will forget the M4 even exists.

Amen to that! Can't even believe most people still think their BMW rides so nice? Really, everyone I been in or driven had the stiffest ride to point where I wanted out! Anyway the BW is NOT going to be quiet either as it has plenty of road noise but the ride is HANDS DOWN one of the best all around packages PERIOD! She does it ALL!

Note: I just loaded her up with bags of salt, groceries and yard trimming equipment.....Still had room for passengers!

 

[rubberduck]

Amen to that! Can't even believe most people still think their BMW rides so nice? Really, everyone I been in or driven had the stiffest ride to point where I wanted out! Anyway the BW is NOT going to be quiet either as it has plenty of road noise but the ride is HANDS DOWN one of the best all around packages PERIOD! She does it ALL!

Any low profile tire is going to have road noise. But my 5BW is far quieter than my AMG was and less interior rattles by a long shot.

 

[Tall Steve]

I don't have a direct comparison to a G8x M3/M4 but I got the wife an LCI X3M comp that I drive alot as well.

I previously posted my thoughts between the two.

Here it is copy and pasted:



The Blackwing wasn't a car that instantly blew me away like the X3M comp did. I was immediately impressed with what a feral beast that SUV could be despite its body shape and weight. I had the X3M Comp for my wife for about 2 months before the Blackwing arrived so it was an immediate point of comparison. All the reviews talk about what a beast the CT5 blackwing was. I was naturally surprised by how civil and refined the Blackwing felt, to the point of being subdued.

Going hard on a backroad, both vehicles will thrill and excite. There is so much power and grip in both vehicles. The X3M would probably be faster in my hands on a back road given the AWD putting down the power well, the amazingly fast ZF 8 speed and the superior visibility. A good driver would definitely be faster in the Blackwing, but there is definitely a greater sense of fear and danger there too. Both cars are talented opera singers on the open road, stirring the right emotions and captivating the soul. The Blackwing hits higher notes here and there but the X3M is close enough that it's shocking.

The difference is when you come up on a car doing sensible speeds on that back road. The BMW falls silent, frustrated that the fun is over. The Blackwing seems to do the same at first. Listen closely however and one realizes that she is still there, singing that same wonderful tune as before. Now, instead of belting it out at the top of her lungs, she's whispering it sweetly into your ear. The steering still communicates with light tugs in your hand. The body motions are still perfected controlled. The exhaust still rumbles with perfectly rev matched down shifts (by the car not me) like distant thunder. It will do this even at 1500 RPMs coming off the throttle. How aggressive you are the revs merely determines how far that tempest sounds, but it is always there. At legal speeds the Blackwing shows off its greatest talent, it's ability to entertain at 2/10ths. Driving the Blackwing requires so much more of my attention. Occasionally I drop of my wife at work and use her car to make the commute to even out the miles between the cars. I'm always flabbergasted about all the extra roadside stuff I notice in the X3 that I just never paid attention to while driving the Blackwing. Was that church always there? I don't ever remember seeing this overlook. It's not just the higher vantage point, because it's all stuff visible from any ride height.

At the end of the day, the X3M feels Iike a vehicle that a large team of people allocated some of their time and resources to, while the Blackwing feels like a vehicle that a small team of people devoted all of their effort and passion to. When asked to perform, both the X3M and Blackwing will sing beautifully. However when doing the banal every day chores, the X3M becomes a perfect domestic, and you nearly forget that it's anything other than another X3. The Blackwing can nearly those same chores, but she is always humming that melody while she is working. Even when doing the most boring of tasks, she never ever lets you forget that she was, is, and always will be, an absolute superstar.

 

[pmsteinm]

I owned a 2004 CTS-V purchased new for 5 years and a 2009 CTS-V also new for 14 years. Now I have a '23 M5 Competition. I wanted the CT5-V Blackwing but was never able to get an allocation and for other reasons time was running out. So I ordered the M5. Compared to the Blackwing (which I've only sat in) the interior is worlds better (but you are paying ~$30k for that). I feel the Blackwing is better or equal to the 3 and 4 series. I can't compare driving since I have yet to drive a BW but compared to my 09 V the M5 is so much more fun. Part of that is everything being new (to me), new (age), and the performance luxury sedan category itself improving in the last 14 years. Plus differing design philosophies between US and Europe, GM and BMW, etc. I get the impression from reviews that the BW is more like the current M5 than it is like my old 09 V. It sounds like Cadillac has found the secret sauce to make the already very good V series great. And the manual in the BW felt so good. I'm still hopeful to get a test drive of a BW because I could probably actually trade in the M5 for BW and not lose too much since the prices are so different. If my M5 disappeared tomorrow I would only consider the BW to replace it.

With the 09 V I wasn't worried about it 10 years after the warranty ended (and it was a very reliable car). With BMW I am prepared for having to spend a lot of money and time in the garage fixing things in 7-10 years. The Germans just like to over engineer things and make them more complex than probably necessary.

 

[white98ls]

Any low profile tire is going to have road noise. But my 5BW is far quieter than my AMG was and less interior rattles by a long shot.

Another sign of priorities... 5BW has relatively "small" 19"s (and 4BW has 18"s) without even an option for bigger wheels (believe the regular V can be had with 20"s!), while the competition has 20"s or even in the case of the Audi RS6/7, 22"s. As a result, it has actual ride compliance, better pothole protection, is likely lighter, and more affordable consumables.

GM valued how the car drives over fashion. And frankly I've never looked at a BW and thought the wheels look too small.

With BMW I am prepared for having to spend a lot of money and time in the garage fixing things in 7-10 years. The Germans just like to over engineer things and make them more complex than probably necessary.

So very true. Some of my favorites from my old 2001 M5:
-Two types of windshield washer fluid, one regular and one "intensive"
-Entire nav screen faceplate motored/pivoted down simply to access a cassette deck
-Went through the trouble of boring and stroking the 540i's V8, adding dual intakes, individual electronic throttle bodies, high compression, and advanced engine management to make 400hp... but then saddled it with the same cast iron headers as the 282hp 540i which sapped ~30hp vs. a decent set of tubular headers

I could go on and on. It never left me stranded, but I was also constantly fixing something or doing "preventive maintenance", and the car only had 66k when I bought it and was pretty well taken care of.

 

[vj123]

I had a 2022 G80 which was a perfect Grandtourer which was luxurious & fast. I had it for 4 months clocking 4500 odd miles and ended up selling it as it lacked the driving character & driver engagement.

I have spent time with 5BW and it been on my watch list for a while. Driver engagement is my main requirement and 5BW would be a perfect fit for what i am looking at. Cabin material and finish might not be like that of the G8x but i care less about it and prefer the physical buttons for infotainment. I might end up with one in the future and it might stay in my garage for a very long time.

 

[Jim2000]

I owned a 2004 CTS-V purchased new for 5 years and a 2009 CTS-V also new for 14 years. Now I have a '23 M5 Competition. I wanted the CT5-V Blackwing but was never able to get an allocation and for other reasons time was running out. So I ordered the M5. Compared to the Blackwing (which I've only sat in) the interior is worlds better (but you are paying ~$30k for that). I feel the Blackwing is better or equal to the 3 and 4 series. I can't compare driving since I have yet to drive a BW but compared to my 09 V the M5 is so much more fun. Part of that is everything being new (to me), new (age), and the performance luxury sedan category itself improving in the last 14 years. Plus differing design philosophies between US and Europe, GM and BMW, etc. I get the impression from reviews that the BW is more like the current M5 than it is like my old 09 V. It sounds like Cadillac has found the secret sauce to make the already very good V series great. And the manual in the BW felt so good. I'm still hopeful to get a test drive of a BW because I could probably actually trade in the M5 for BW and not lose too much since the prices are so different. If my M5 disappeared tomorrow I would only consider the BW to replace it.

With the 09 V I wasn't worried about it 10 years after the warranty ended (and it was a very reliable car). With BMW I am prepared for having to spend a lot of money and time in the garage fixing things in 7-10 years. The Germans just like to over engineer things and make them more complex than probably necessary.

You won't be waiting 7-10 years for a lot of expensive repairs on the BMW.

 

[pmsteinm]

The M5 wheels have a larger rolling diameter but the exact same sidewall height of the 09 V (285/35). I like to think the lager rolling diameter is for a performance reason and not just bling. I can't stand large wheels for the sake of large (Audi with 21 and 22...wtf). I want larger wheels because they are needed to clear the massive brakes. I was very pleased to see Cadillac stick with the wheel size they did. I think a 285/35 sidewall is a good tradeoff of performance and comfort (at least in NC where we have pretty good roads). That's probably why the E60 M5 had those wheel specs too. The Blackwing is essentially the same sidewall height as well.

 

[cnofar]

My opinion as a former BMW M3 owner (E46, E90, and F80), and jumped to the CT4 Blackwing. I absolutely LOVED my E46 M3 and my E90 M3; the F80 was a "great car" but I did not love it. The F80 was missing the sound I enjoyed, and the turbos somewhat killed what I thought a M car should be. With every newer BMW generation there were more gizmos, features, etc. Arguably the styling was more modern each generation, but don't get me started on G8X front end, major fail in my eyes.

I had my eyes set on a G80 M3 despite the front end, but with dealer markups and limited availability I looked elsewhere. I looked into the Cadillac Blackwings, wanting a 5BW for obvious reasons but dealer markup and lead times were off putting. The 4BW was priced similar to the G80 M3, a bit smaller, but had rave reviews in magazine so I bought one sight unseen. I am genuinely happy with the 4BW in comfort, features, and usability. I do wish it sounded better but you cannot make turbos and V6 sounds like a V8 no matter what you do. Plus maintenance/dealership costs for oil changes etc are FAR cheaper for Cadillac than BMW. For perspective my local dealers charge $175-225 for an M car oil change, versus I spend about $60 for the Blackwing. Nuts.

Trying new cars is always fun and I'm glad I moved the Cadillac.

 

[MookdocOE]

You won't be waiting 7-10 years for a lot of expensive repairs on the BMW.

So true I mean I worked with a dude who ringed out his Mustang GT to redline everyday literally every light 7K in 112f heat putting 25k miles on a year and doing for years...no way a BMW takes that abuse with only brake components needing attention.

 

[rubberduck]

Geez, if I did that I’d be in jail in less than a week and that’s in 1st gear.

 

[MookdocOE]

Geez, if I did that I’d be in jail in less than a week and that’s in 1st gear.

I remember distinctly asking him do you Redline that thing every single time? He was a former Cadillac ASE tech and major LS buff but yeah he said, "that's what it's made for"

 

[Exia]

There was another thread a while ago asking about German vs Blackwing, I'm to lazy to dig it up so I'll make a short version of what I mentioned there.

I owned a '22 M3 Competition, very good car but was auto. Manual vs manual (M4 vs 5BW) the Blackwing is the winner in every single metric except interior materials. Cadillac will probably never beat the Germans at this game, actually my 3LT C8 had better overall interior materials then my Blackwing does and it cost less.

If you can get over not having a full grain leather dash and armrests you will love the CT5-V Blackwing. The manual in this car is probably one of the best out there, not to mention that despite it being larger then an M3 it basically weighed just as much as my M3.

Throw the rear seats down to get more of the V8 exhaust growl into the cabin and you will be a happy owner.

I don't regret getting rid of my M3 Competition and especially wouldn't regret it if it had a BMW manual. Seriously if you test drive a Blackwing, as soon as you make that first 1-2 shift you will be sold especially if you weren't done in already by the cold start with the exhaust in track mode.

 

[BimmerFan]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my thread.

I made a deal to trade in the M4 on a lightly used CT5BW, manual natch. Black. No carbon.

Planning to get it Saturday (out of state).

 

[rubberduck]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my thread.

I made a deal to trade in the M4 on a lightly used CT5BW, manual natch. Black. No carbon.

Planning to get it Saturday (out of state).

 

[quikag]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my thread.

I made a deal to trade in the M4 on a lightly used CT5BW, manual natch. Black. No carbon.

Planning to get it Saturday (out of state).

Congrats, you're going to love it! Make sure wheel is pointed straight when you nail the happy pedal in 1st, 2nd, and occasionally 3rd depending on road surface.

 

[19-kilo]

I don't have a direct comparison to a G8x M3/M4 but I got the wife an LCI X3M comp that I drive alot as well.

I previously posted my thoughts between the two.

Here it is copy and pasted:



The Blackwing wasn't a car that instantly blew me away like the X3M comp did. I was immediately impressed with what a feral beast that SUV could be despite its body shape and weight. I had the X3M Comp for my wife for about 2 months before the Blackwing arrived so it was an immediate point of comparison. All the reviews talk about what a beast the CT5 blackwing was. I was naturally surprised by how civil and refined the Blackwing felt, to the point of being subdued.

Going hard on a backroad, both vehicles will thrill and excite. There is so much power and grip in both vehicles. The X3M would probably be faster in my hands on a back road given the AWD putting down the power well, the amazingly fast ZF 8 speed and the superior visibility. A good driver would definitely be faster in the Blackwing, but there is definitely a greater sense of fear and danger there too. Both cars are talented opera singers on the open road, stirring the right emotions and captivating the soul. The Blackwing hits higher notes here and there but the X3M is close enough that it's shocking.

The difference is when you come up on a car doing sensible speeds on that back road. The BMW falls silent, frustrated that the fun is over. The Blackwing seems to do the same at first. Listen closely however and one realizes that she is still there, singing that same wonderful tune as before. Now, instead of belting it out at the top of her lungs, she's whispering it sweetly into your ear. The steering still communicates with light tugs in your hand. The body motions are still perfected controlled. The exhaust still rumbles with perfectly rev matched down shifts (by the car not me) like distant thunder. It will do this even at 1500 RPMs coming off the throttle. How aggressive you are the revs merely determines how far that tempest sounds, but it is always there. At legal speeds the Blackwing shows off its greatest talent, it's ability to entertain at 2/10ths. Driving the Blackwing requires so much more of my attention. Occasionally I drop of my wife at work and use her car to make the commute to even out the miles between the cars. I'm always flabbergasted about all the extra roadside stuff I notice in the X3 that I just never paid attention to while driving the Blackwing. Was that church always there? I don't ever remember seeing this overlook. It's not just the higher vantage point, because it's all stuff visible from any ride height.

At the end of the day, the X3M feels Iike a vehicle that a large team of people allocated some of their time and resources to, while the Blackwing feels like a vehicle that a small team of people devoted all of their effort and passion to. When asked to perform, both the X3M and Blackwing will sing beautifully. However when doing the banal every day chores, the X3M becomes a perfect domestic, and you nearly forget that it's anything other than another X3. The Blackwing can nearly those same chores, but she is always humming that melody while she is working. Even when doing the most boring of tasks, she never ever lets you forget that she was, is, and always will be, an absolute superstar.

Well said. Entertainment below 10/10s is a key feature for me that the blackwing do better than most. They are fun even when just doing daily car stuff.