CT4-V What Tires

[Head Hunter]

Never been to a HOD or HPDE event, but are there "vendors" there that would do things like track alignments, brake fluid flushes, etc at the track? Would be great if I could drive to the event, do the alignment and everything there, then undo it before I left, rather than having to trailer the car to the event or drive it 5 hours on track alignment.

 

[almazing]

Never been to a HOD or HPDE event, but are there "vendors" there that would do things like track alignments, brake fluid flushes, etc at the track? Would be great if I could drive to the event, do the alignment and everything there, then undo it before I left, rather than having to trailer the car to the event or drive it 5 hours on track alignment.

Depends on the track and how big the event is. World class tracks with huge events, you may find vendors there with portable alignment rigs. You'll at least find tire vendors that'll mount new tires on for you, and a portable dyno. I don't think the track alignment is too aggressive for the street. -2.5 is pretty tame. And toe has a larger effect on tire wear than negative camber because any toe in or out means your tires are literally scrubbing against the surface of the road. That being said, if one drives their car a whole lot to commute dozens of miles, then -2.5 camber would accelerate wear compared whatever the factory 'street' alignment is.

I plan on taking my 4BW as it sits from the factory, minus oil, rear diff, and brake fluid. On August's track day, I'll get it track aligned beforehand, and I'll just leave it on track alignment permanently. I also plan to 'rotate' tires left to right/right to left after every track event, due to all tracks favoring a certain side more than the other. This should prolong tire life somewhat. I don't have to drive long distances to work and for errands unlike others here, so I'm not super worried about slightly accelerated tire wear.

 

[Head Hunter]

Just brainstorming as I'm reconsidering having a GM Dealership do the brake flush and track alignment as that would put it in service records that highly indicate the vehicle was tracked (risking voiding any and all warranties under the abuse/misuse clause)

 

[almazing]

Just brainstorming as I'm reconsidering having a GM Dealership do the brake flush and track alignment as that would put it in service records that highly indicate the vehicle was tracked (risking voiding any and all warranties under the abuse/misuse clause)

I was under the impression that these cars were covered under track usage? I mean, there's a section in the manual that is dedicated to track use. I've had track ready street cars in the past that didn't even have this section. Abuse and misuse are different(at least to me) than driving the car on track responsibly. To me, abuse and misuse would be say, taking it to drift events and banging the engine against the rev limiter for prolonged periods of time. Going 10/10ths on a road course isn't abuse or misuse either, so long as the driver can keep the car under control and put the power to the ground properly, rather than trying to be Mr. McDriftharris on every corner.

In any case, if you're worried about the dealer implications, I would take it to a specialty shop that does custom alignments and race prep. They'll be able to sort out the brake flush and alignment without issue. I for one, take my cars to get aligned at a shop that specializes in Porsches.

 

[Head Hunter]

I was under the impression that these cars were covered under track usage? I mean, there's a section in the manual that is dedicated to track use. I've had track ready street cars in the past that didn't even have this section. Abuse and misuse are different(at least to me) than driving the car on track responsibly. To me, abuse and misuse would be say, taking it to drift events and banging the engine against the rev limiter for prolonged periods of time. Going 10/10ths on a road course isn't abuse or misuse either, so long as the driver can keep the car under control and put the power to the ground properly, rather than trying to be Mr. McDriftharris on every corner.

In any case, if you're worried about the dealer implications, I would take it to a specialty shop that does custom alignments and race prep. They'll be able to sort out the brake flush and alignment without issue. I for one, take my cars to get aligned at a shop that specializes in Porsches.

I thought so to, but when I was talking to Allen Black at James Black Cadillac about the extended warranty, he basically said that tracking it would void the warranty, so don't ever leave documented history that it happened and if it breaks on track, have it towed home and then file the claim. No clue how accurate that is, but seemed like the guy had been selling GM Warranties for 30 years and knew what he was talking about.

 

[RDATLTE]

I thought so to, but when I was talking to Allen Black at James Black Cadillac about the extended warranty, he basically said that tracking it would void the warranty, so don't ever leave documented history that it happened and if it breaks on track, have it towed home and then file the claim. No clue how accurate that is, but seemed like the guy had been selling GM Warranties for 30 years and knew what he was talking about.

There's tracking and then there's tracking... I don't beleieve that an HPDE is considered tracking.

 

[Head Hunter]

There's tracking and then there's tracking... I don't beleieve that an HPDE is considered tracking.

It's funny to me that in the owners manual, in the middle of them talking about track prep and high performance driving, they sneak this little section in saying it "may" affect the vehicle warranty. I think at the end of the day, you'd be at the mercy of the dealership/warranty company's interpretation of "abuse/misuse" and wind up having to sue them and hope a judge would agrees with you, in which case your gambling with attorney fees that may or may not be more than the repairs themselves, in which case if you lose, you're out both, haha.

 

[jodakid69]

I checked the 2022 warranty manual. There is a "racing" exclusion and an "abuse" exclusion.

An HPDE track event is neither. However, if you execute a "money shift", well then that is improper driving and likely falls into the abuse category regardless of the location being a track or not. On numerous occasions, I have sifted into 6th gear coming from 5th at the end of the straightaway at NJMP. My intention was to shift into 4th. However, if I somehow shifted into 2nd coming from 5th, well then we are into an "OVER REV" condition and the notorious "Money Shift" might occur.

Tires are also a likely source of a warranty claim dispute. My driver's side front started chunking on their 4th track day. I replaced the fronts at my expense and did not try to claim them under warranty.

Check out this video -

 

[strohw]

After a miss shift on my 987.2 coming on to a straight, I just slow down my shifts now. I didn't do any damage but it presented an opportunity for me to decide whether a lap time was worth an engine. I decided it wasn't so now I shift like I do on the street and feel with 100% confidence that that will never happen again.

 

[Head Hunter]

Yeah, I guess it comes down to what GM considers "Racing, or other competition"

I called the GM Warranty Department to inquire about this (no VIN or name provided of course, haha) and their stance, on a recorded call that I have saved, was that if an issue occurs at an event, such as a HPDE, but the failure is unrelated to a driver error, then the warranty would remain in place, but that it is up to the dealership's determination of the cause of the failure. So if the dealership determines that you over revved the engine and that caused it to break, then your SOL.

So at the end of the day, it's highly dependent on the dealership you take it to and what they claim happened.

 

[emdough]

Has anyone tried a set of the Continental Extreme Contact Sport? I tried Michelin PS4S on my GTI but they made it feel sluggish as they were almost 3 lbs heavier per tire than the Contis. Wonder if it would be noticeable on the 4BW.

 

[FrankRizzo]

FWIW - The Costco website kept showing different availabilities for the OE 4S TPC tires. One day they had the fronts, one day the rears...on and off for days. So I went in on Monday and ordered them at the counter and they were here on Thursday. First appointment to install them is not until July 14th tho....

 

[Seth]

Im moving forward with an appointment to get the standard Pilot Sport 4S installed

 

[StuckeyGR]

Ouch. Yea, I’ll switch to stock size 200TW Kuhmo V730s rather than stick with the stock Michelins. Endurance 200s can take more heat cycles and longer lasting tread than the PS4S while having more ultimate grip. Though I understand why it shouldn’t be on a daily driven vehicle.

I went with Kumho V730s on my track wheels for my 4BW and was surprised to cord the LF today on just my 3rd track day on them. I did swap them right to left multiple times to even out the wear. I used a set of these on my Veloster N last year for 8 track days and they still have more to go. These are supposed to be one of the 200TW tires that gives up a little of lap time for better wear and that was my experience on the VN so I’m a bit disappointed. I could tell they were wearing more quickly on the Blackwing but with the way the outer shoulder is on them once you were through the shallow grooves it’s hard to tell how much you have left. But the rears definitely still have a bit more life in them so I guess I’ll just get a new set of fronts so I can use the rears up before trying something else. Kind of disappointing but at least they’re not very expensive. Has anyone had good luck with tracking other 200TW tires on the 4BW?

 

[almazing]

I went with Kumho V730s on my track wheels for my 4BW and was surprised to cord the LF today on just my 3rd track day on them. I did swap them right to left multiple times to even out the wear. I used a set of these on my Veloster N last year for 8 track days and they still have more to go. These are supposed to be one of the 200TW tires that gives up a little of lap time for better wear and that was my experience on the VN so I’m a bit disappointed. I could tell they were wearing more quickly on the Blackwing but with the way the outer shoulder is on them once you were through the shallow grooves it’s hard to tell how much you have left. But the rears definitely still have a bit more life in them so I guess I’ll just get a new set of fronts so I can use the rears up before trying something else. Kind of disappointing but at least they’re not very expensive. Has anyone had good luck with tracking other 200TW tires on the 4BW?

It surprises me that the fronts wear out a lot faster specifically on the 4BW rather than the rears since it's a high powered RWD car. I guess the braking forces generated on the front tires just chew through the rubber. On a good note though, 255 V730 Kuhmos are cheap. It could be worse. The fronts could be 285s, 295s, 305s,... etc.

 

[Carguyshu]

FYI - I burned through the original fronts in 3.5 track days - that was Twenty (20 minutes) track sessions/heat cycles. I had to limp home from the track at lunch. The driver's side front outer edge had chunks coming off. Per the owner's manual - Track life is 100 miles. Reference the - Track Events and Competitive Driving (V-Series and V-Series Blackwing) section:

View attachment 19874

If that is true, the we are talking about $1500 per track day, YIKES!

You are way overdriving and/or overheating the tires if only got that many days out of the front. If you plow the front tires, especially when overheated, the 4s are known to do that. I nuked a front set in 1 day b/c I was an idiot pushing it too hard. Pull off once they hit 38psi, try not to engage the ABS, and try to focus on exiting a corner fast rather than entering it fast. I'm at 5 days on my 5BW and there's more than 50% left on the fronts.

You're over driving the stock tires. The 4S isn't going to last if you're running intermediate pace or higher as they're a street summer tire. Like mentioned, you need to upgrade to a 200TW tire. If you're killing your fronts after 3 track days and running the full track alignment then you should probably be on 200TW tires, track pads and fluid. It's going to save you money as they're going to last longer and they don't cost anymore than OEM.

The stock pads and tires are pretty dang good for something you can drive everyday even when pushed extremely hard. Everyone should put in high temp fluid if tracking though. I use Castrol SRF. It's wet boiling point is higher than a lot of fluid's dry boiling point so you only need to flush it once per year. It is very expensive fluid, but only having to change fluid once a year makes it cheaper to use vs other options.

Never been to a HOD or HPDE event, but are there "vendors" there that would do things like track alignments, brake fluid flushes, etc at the track? Would be great if I could drive to the event, do the alignment and everything there, then undo it before I left, rather than having to trailer the car to the event or drive it 5 hours on track alignment.

You can drive on the track alignment just fine. No need to trailer or change at the track. I daily my car and leave it in track alignment 100% of the time. You'll wear the insides faster daily driving the track alignment, but wear the outsides faster tracking the car. It helps even things out.

View attachment 19908
Yeah, I guess it comes down to what GM considers "Racing, or other competition"

I called the GM Warranty Department to inquire about this (no VIN or name provided of course, haha) and their stance, on a recorded call that I have saved, was that if an issue occurs at an event, such as a HPDE, but the failure is unrelated to a driver error, then the warranty would remain in place, but that it is up to the dealership's determination of the cause of the failure. So if the dealership determines that you over revved the engine and that caused it to break, then your SOL.

So at the end of the day, it's highly dependent on the dealership you take it to and what they claim happened.

My engine blew while at the track. The dealer is VERY aware I track my car frequently. The BW, Camaro, and C8 vette (only with the Z51 package) are all covered under warranty for track use.

I chose not to use the dealer for anything and opted for a race shop to do the alignment and the brake fluids. I'll do the motor and rear diff myself. Once I'm done, the race shop will re do the alignment back to stock. Their price for both alignments was cheaper than the dealership wanted for one and their $250 for a rear diff fluid that will cost me $100 was an easy decision. I'll let them do the oil change at 5k miles since it's free, but after that I'll probably be doing all my own minor maintenance as long as I have the tools for it (no brakes though)

The rear diff requires a gigantic torx socket, but is even easier to change than the oil.

It surprises me that the fronts wear out a lot faster specifically on the 4BW rather than the rears since it's a high powered RWD car. I guess the braking forces generated on the front tires just chew through the rubber. On a good note though, 255 V730 Kuhmos are cheap. It could be worse. The fronts could be 285s, 295s, 305s,... etc.

Turning a 2 ton car puts a lot of stress on the front tires. I can almost go through 2 sets of front tires before 1 set of rears with track use.

 

[Carguyshu]

FWIW there are actually 2 versions of the TPC spec tires. One has the acoustical foam (like the factory fitted) and one does not. This would be in addition to the regular 4s tire that also comes in the same size. If I were hard up for tires I would likely just roll with the regular 4s as they are likely to be the most similar. The TPC spec are similar to what the 5's are going to be and have cup2 compound blended into the outer tread blocks. The TPC spec also have the rim guard removed in the rear tires for the 5BW at least to give that much extra little bit of clearance.

 

[Mbar]

I just ordered a set of fronts TPC from Costco. Online it shows as out of stock , but if you go to the tier center they can order it (Costco # 1519051)

 

[brooksgn]

I track my V sport 3-4 times a year and love the cheap Firestone indy 500 tires. Other guys at the track turned me on to them. Good performance, decent tread life and fair price. They aren't the best for track days but their about 80% for about half the cost when you account for tread life. They are certainly much better than the garbage run flats my car came with.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I just ordered a set of fronts TPC from Costco. Online it shows as out of stock , but if you go to the tier center they can order it (Costco # 1519051)

Is there an echo in here?