C&D compare BW5/RS7/M5

[Jpjr]

I also like the Blackwing because I own one and am here. We don’t need to be homers though it’s ok to talk competition.

 

[rdollie]

Exactly what I'm saying, thank you! So maybe I should look at an M5? Or a bargain priced M550i? IDK, this whole thing is really getting frustrating.

Honestly, if at all possible, drive them and decide. If you're thinking standard M5 against BW I'd highly suggest looking at M550. Otherwise, take a look at all of the video reviews by professional (i.e., those who do so regulalry) and at some point for EVERY SINGLE ONE (even The Stig), the reviewer becomes a 12-year behind the wheel of the BW. I haven't seen anything else of late that does that- certainly nothing in this class.

 

[rdollie]

Nothing that one has physical access to is uncrackable. Give the tuners a little time.

Sure but how much time and money? By the time they figure it out, market will move to the next hot thing with new encryption. Tuners can piggy back and use their proprietary computers for the C8 but to GM's credit it's been nearly 2 years of brute force efforts with no luck.

 

[Tall Steve]

The Goatfather has spoken !!! LOL

That don't mean shit!

 

[Finally-a-V]

Honestly, if at all possible, drive then and decide. If you're thinking standard M5 against BW I'd highly suggest looking at M550. Otherwise, take a look at all of the video reviews by professional (i.e., those who do so regulalry) and at some point for EVERY SINGLE ONE (even The Stig), the reviewer becomes a 12-year behind the wheel of the BW. I have seen anything else of late that does that- certainly nothing in this class.

Oh, agreed! Can't find a 5BW, and I'd guess no dealer is going let you without cash on the table. Drove a M850ix and was very impressed. Fast, sure footed, beautiful car. I'd guess a M550ix would be similar. I'll wait for my 5BW, but not forever.

 

[Vakane]

Drove the m5 it’s a very fast luxury sedan but at that price get a plaid (if we are talking performance)

I only got a chance to drive a 4bw and if th ct5 is like then they seem like very luxurious sports sedan which I was immediately sold on.

Nothing against the m5 it’s amazing…. But I wanted something more engaging

Drove the mach e GT and great car all around just fast out the hole to 60 and it dies… I need a performance vehicle that’s more engaging.

I drove a plaid… super cool but the super launch thing gets tiring and the yoke thing gets old real quick.

Now I believe we have an era of super cruisers like the plaid and m5 but speed ain’t what makes it a sports car and those cars aren’t sports cars…

Ask a Miata owner to explain what I mean because I sure can’t….

 

[Finally-a-V]

I really don't want a M5, just thought I'd look. Don't really need it. Like I said, drove a M850ix and was really impressed, but for that money, I'd get an M5 or my 5BW (if it shows up). I think the M550ix is a pretty good bang for the buck. My other issue with BMW is reliability. Some say they are not reliable, others say they are.

 

[DAC17]

GM has focused all its attention on the driving dynamics. To be honest, the interior is not as nice as my X3M, but it's plenty functional and fine for my use!

 

[strohw]

GM has focused all its attention on the driving dynamics. To be honest, the interior is not as nice as my X3M, but it's plenty functional and fine for my use!

Got rid of a X3M for a 4BW as well. This car is drastically more fun to drive.

 

[Mirza Grebovic]

I don't buy this narrative that the base price would be $30k-40K more if Caddy put in better material in the interior. How much more would it cost per car to just have better plastics on the doors? Or soft touch material. How can cars that cost half (or even less) can do that? Look at Asian imports for example. Sure they do not have the power of BWs on their premium trims interior quality is a lot better.

I urge you to go pull up a M5 comp next to the 5 and compare materials. I dont want to provide my opinion here but would love to hear from folks that actually have been in both vs articles. It might surprise many.

 

[Jpjr]

I urge you to go pull up a M5 comp next to the 5 and compare materials. I dont want to provide my opinion here but would love to hear from folks that actually have been in both vs articles. It might surprise many.

The interior in the Blackwing is the best of any GM car I have ever owned, and that’s 10+ cars. The Escalade(s) I’ve owned always got the benefit of the doubt because the Americans’ dominated the segment. Cheaper interior pieces often went overlooked in comparos because the trucks dominate in so many categories and outsell the foreign plates by a wide margin despite no price concession.

Very similar reality with pickups - the Americans’ destroy the Japanese both in ratings and sales despite the longstanding nod on quality to Japan.

But with the sedans, it’s the opposite. Why does Caddy include ANY cheap plastic bits when they know the rags will make a mountain out of a mole hill??

To win the title, you can’t just beat the champ… you gotta knock em out. GM comes so close but in the end can’t stop doing GM things with their luxury sedans. I would pay $130k+ for a Cadillac sedan that not only beat, but also smoked the M5!

My overarching point is, at the well over $100k price point, WHO is still looking for the cheap alternative?!?????

 

[Vakane]

I urge you to go pull up a M5 comp next to the 5 and compare materials. I dont want to provide my opinion here but would love to hear from folks that actually have been in both vs articles. It might surprise many.

You obviously had in mind designing a car that was special for very different than an M5 is…

I said it before when I drove the Bw4 I got a similar feeling of when I drove my 94 Rx7 or an s2000 or a Mazda speed Miata…

M5s are extremely fast super cruisers but they’ve lost something in pursuit for sheer speed.

I’m trying to get a 5bw because I prefer the twisted and being able to learn and try to push the machine to a limit…

 

[Mirza Grebovic]

The interior in the Blackwing is the best of any GM car I have ever owned, and that’s 10+ cars. The Escalade(s) I’ve owned always got the benefit of the doubt because the Americans’ dominated the segment. Cheaper interior pieces often went overlooked in comparos because the trucks dominate in so many categories and outsell the foreign plates by a wide margin despite no price concession.

Very similar reality with pickups - the Americans’ destroy the Japanese both in ratings and sales despite the longstanding nod on quality to Japan.

But with the sedans, it’s the opposite. Why does Caddy include ANY cheap plastic bits when they know the rags will make a mountain out of a mole hill??

To win the title, you can’t just beat the champ… you gotta knock em out. GM comes so close but in the end can’t stop doing GM things with their luxury sedans. I would pay $130k+ for a Cadillac sedan that not only beat, but also smoked the M5!

My overarching point is, at the well over $100k price point, WHO is still looking for the cheap alternative?!?????

I dont see a cheaper alternative, I see a better alternative period. Seriously, very curious to see "better materials" and what that means to folks. Just asking to understand. Somebody said "soft touch". The entire console on the rs and m are plastic. Piano black at that too, remeber cts-v review and piano black? The RS7 has a lot of plastic on the dash, looks intricate and beautiful but soft touch it is not. So the why does cadillc use plastic yet the car deemed nicer has more of it is what throws me for a loop.

 

[Ungwei]

Tbh I've never really been good at judging interior quality, but at least in comparing the new M4 and the 4BW, the 4BW felt comparable if not nicer in many respects (Blackwing shifter is gorgeous and feels great while the M4 shifter felt like the shifter in the Ford ecosport I drove).

 

[Ryan]

Ive never understood the hard vs soft plastic debate for things like lower door panels. If its a place you regularly touch, it should be a soft plastic or leather, period. Cadillac and the Germans get this right for the most part. There are occasionally places like where your knee hits that are hard plastic, and I think its fair to call out these ergonomic failures. But usually, where your hands go, where your elbows rest, where your knees contact the tunnel are all soft and ergonomic.

Door panels and dashes? I dont get it. Trim doesnt squeak because its hard or soft, it squeaks because it was improperly assembled or torqued. Does the hard plastic have more glare on the dash? Does it absorb sound better? Maybe?

As a counterpoint to soft plastics, my 2013 BMW 3 has a good amount of soft plastics that are starting to disintegrate (I assume from UV exposure despite being garaged, or maybe oil from my skin). The door handles are a sticky decomposing mess that are peeling off and leaving black gunk on my hands. The rubber on the I-drive rotary knob feels like soda has been spilled all over it as it decomposes. The numbers are wearing off the center console short cut buttons. My right door has rattled since the day I got it, and the dealer could only temporarily make it better.

On the other hand, the fake sensatech leather has been absolutely bullet proof, and I would take it over real leather any day of the week. It doesnt get as hot or cold, it doesnt get dirty, and it doesnt show wear at all.

In summary, quality construction > expensive materials in areas you dont normally touch.

 

[1Evil55]

By show of hands who buys a car based on the interior? Yes it may have some factor into the decision but I'd be hard pressed to find a reason related to the interior that would push me away from a car that overall I'm in love with already. I'm more than happy to buy a car for 30 or 40g's less with an interior that a few folks from a car forum complain about.

 

[Ungwei]

By show of hands who buys a car based on the interior? Yes it may have some factor into the decision but I'd be hard pressed to find a reason related to the interior that would push me away from a car that overall I'm in love with already. I'm more than happy to buy a car for 30 or 40g's less with an interior that a few folks from a car forum complain about.

It's not a huge factor by any means, but certainly it's one of the things that made the BW appealing to me over the Camaro. I love the idea of luxury performance cars, and knowing how amazing the Alpha Chassis platform is, the interior and styling was really the one thing keeping me away from the Camaro. The ATS-V/CT4-V BW fixes that issue, and had I been able to afford it earlier, I probably would have gone with the ATS-V for that reason. That being said, on a pure sports car like a Lotus or even a Cayman, interior can be totally stripped down for all I care. It's just if I'm getting a luxury Sedan, even one as track capable as this, the interior does really add to my love of the car.

 

[LS7Solstice]

As somebody who works in the automotive industry and specifically in automotive interiors I consider myself to be pickier than most and to be honest, the "lower door trim" plastic does not bother me one bit. It's one of those parts in the interior you wouldn't notice until you read about it in a magazine. Are there ways you can make an injection molded plastic part feel more 'soft'? Sure. But there's give and take and you have to ask yourself from GM's perspective, "if the lower door trim plastic felt softer, would this equal more sales?" I think we all know the answer to that question...

I'm just thankful the CT5 BW doesn't come with Piano Black on the center console and center stack like the M5 and RS7.

 

[Finally-a-V]

It's just like CUE. Every article I ever read about a ATSV or CTSV, all they ever complained about was CUE. CUE, CUE CUE, bad, bad, bad. Maybe a few other small things. I bought a "regular" 2018 CTS. Debated it for a while because of CUE. Being 100% honest, what was the big deal? Maybe the original version in the 2016's was a bit harder to use, but I never thought it was "bad". It just became a joke with the mags..."The car was great, but CUE is bad....don't buy." Stop it. I think the new interior is very nice. Actually, in the 5BW, the top trim is different and beautiful...IMO.

 

[Jpjr]

It's just like CUE. Every article I ever read about a ATSV or CTSV, all they ever complained about was CUE. CUE, CUE CUE, bad, bad, bad. Maybe a few other small things. I bought a "regular" 2018 CTS. Debated it for a while because of CUE. Being 100% honest, what was the big deal? Maybe the original version in the 2016's was a bit harder to use, but I never thought it was "bad". It just became a joke with the mags..."The car was great, but CUE is bad....don't buy." Stop it. I think the new interior is very nice. Actually, in the 5BW, the top trim is different and beautiful...IMO.

The interior is very nice, the best I've owned from GM. But that's in absolute terms, and the manufacturers are compared in relative terms. For example, the 2022 software is better, but the display would only be luxury standard if we were still living in 2018. Also, what happened to super cruise for the most expensive sedan offered by Cadillac? The back seat is a total afterthought, even the window shades are gone.

To be clear, I would characterize these as "gripes". Obviously I spent six figures on the Blackwing and am more than happy with the purchase. But when you add all these little things up they start to matter in comparisons in a segment where "value" is not the biggest priority for most buyers.