CT4-V CT4 BW ARH Downpipes

[Ttibbe]

Is anyone running these? I plan to go catted, and the build quality on the ARH downpipes looks quite a bit better than the main alternative. I'm curious if anyone has any sound clips or experience tuning with these . . . I'll likely run a mildish tapout tune eventually.

 

[CT4-Venom]

Is anyone running these? I plan to go catted, and the build quality on the ARH downpipes looks quite a bit better than the main alternative. I'm curious if anyone has any sound clips or experience tuning with these . . . I'll likely run a mildish tapout tune eventually.

I have looked at doing catted downpipes as well. Update the thread after you get them on.

 

[CT4-Venom]

I have looked at doing catted downpipes as well. Update the thread after you get them on.

What specs are your 4?

 

[Ttibbe]

What specs are your 4?

'25/6M/Cyber Yellow

 

[Kawman]

If you two are game, I'll make a call and try to negotiate a discounted deal for 3 of them. I would want a catted pipe.

Anybody else want to join the buying group?

 

[Ttibbe]

If you two are game, I'll make a call and try to negotiate a discounted deal for 3 of them. I would want a catted pipe.

Anybody else want to join the buying group?

I'm down. Dunno if they offer a veterans' discount, but I'm a vet.

 

[Kawman]

OK, I'm on it.

That's 2 confirmed. I'm sure the larger the group the better the price, so please speak up.

Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Down Pipes

CT4-V Blackwing owners, how does 28-30 additional rear wheel horsepower and NO CEL sound? Our new severe duty downpipes by ARH deliver just that and more! The incredible gains come with no additional changes other than the swap. Manufactured using heavy duty 5” G-Sport cats, this kit can handle...

americanracingheaders.com

 

[piranha971]

You do know what downpipes without a crossover sound like on an LF4 engine, don't you? I am asking to make sure you are not missing that important element if you are new to this platform and making a conscious choice.

 

[Ttibbe]

You do know what downpipes without a crossover sound like on an LF4 engine, don't you? I am asking to make sure you are not missing that important element if you are new to this platform and making a conscious choice.

Stock dps don't have a crossover . . .

 

[piranha971]

Stock dps don't have a crossover . . .

Stock downpipes have different converters and the rest of the exhaust was tuned for them. Catted aftermarket downpipes have a very different sound. Back in the ATS-V days, nearly every vendor that made downpipes for the car eventually added a crossover. At least these that were serious about being considered. Some people like a raspy sound, so they would probably like it.

 

[Ttibbe]

Stock downpipes have different converters and the rest of the exhaust was tuned for them. Catted aftermarket downpipes have a very different sound. Back in the ATS-V days, nearly every vendor that made downpipes for the car eventually added a crossover. At least these that were serious about being considered. Some people like a raspy sound, so they would probably like it.

Time will tell, I guess. I'll certainly post sound clips when I get mine installed. I'm very wary of no-name aftermarket cats, coming from BMW and seeing them melt into turbos. The crossover might even increase the probability, given the potential for increased pressure differentials/heat gradients.

 

[Antbob]

Crest Performance makes a set with or without cross over and uses G-sports FYI.

 

[Kawman]

The Crest Performance downpipes are $1,650 with the crossover pipe and $1,550 without. Hell of a difference from the $2,900 for the ARP downpipes. Yes, they both use G-Sport cats. I had to dig into this price discrepancy.

The CP downpipes state they use the Gen2 E300 cats, ARP downpipes claim to use Gen2 400 cell cats. Both use 3" tubes. I went to the G-Sport website to see what I could learn there. It appears the CP downpipes use G-Sport part #10030 cats. Those cats are shown on the website as not being EPA compliant, do not list a hp rating and cost $210ea. The ARP downpipes appear to use G-Sport part #85230 cats. Those are shown on the website to be EPA compliant, rated for 850hp and cost $770ea.

It appears the entire price difference in the products is the quality level of the cats being used. Perhaps the most significant difference in the cats being used is that one is legal for street use and the other is not. Therefor no concerns about emissions inspections, or unlawful off-road only parts being found on a street car. Supposedly the ARP product will not throw codes.

I'm feeling like the ARP product is the only viable option for me.

Here's a link to the G-Sport website to look at the information for yourselves.

G-Sport Products - High-Flow Catalytic Converters

G-Sport High-Flow Catalytic Converter products and accessories help you meet or exceed local emissions standards. Upgrade today!

www.gsportbygesi.com

 

[Kawman]

Very busy day, been on the phone for hours and learned a lot. I spoke with Nick, the owner of ARH. He connected me with a friend of his in Long Island that has two 4BW's, one as his daily and one as a track car. He says he loves these down pipes and said they are not raspy. Same tone as OEM, just a bit louder. He said he previously had another brand of downpipes which constantly threw codes and he said these never throw a code. I'm hoping he sends me a video soon to hear the sound.

The OEM cats have 800 cells. These with 400 cells are the least restrictive cats that obtain EPA approval. The other brands use 300 cell cats.

I've negotiated a price for a group buy of 5 sets. This is a one time deal at this price. Unless another group is put together. Message me for the price privately.

Any questions?

 

[Ttibbe]

Very busy day, been on the phone for hours and learned a lot. I spoke with Nick, the owner of ARH. He connected me with a friend of his in Long Island that has two 4BW's, one as his daily and one as a track car. He says he loves these down pipes and said they are not raspy. Same tone as OEM, just a bit louder. He said he previously had another brand of downpipes which constantly threw codes and he said these never throw a code. I'm hoping he sends me a video soon to hear the sound.

The OEM cats have 800 cells. These with 400 cells are the least restrictive cats that obtain EPA approval. The other brands use 300 cell cats.

I've negotiated a price for a group buy of 5 sets. This is a one time deal at this price. Unless another group is put together. Message me for the price privately.

Any questions?

Dev car thread, if anyone is interested:
Thread 'CT4-V Blackwing w/ARH catted down pipes No CELs' CT4-V - CT4-V Blackwing w/ARH catted down pipes No CELs

 

[Todd]

The OEM cats have 800 cells. These with 400 cells are the least restrictive cats that obtain EPA approval. The other brands use 300 cell cats.

fyi, it doesn’t matter if individual cats are EPA approved if the total number of cats is reduced.

All aftermarket downpipes eliminate the secondary cats, and that is most definitely not EPA approved.

Just an FYI. It’s a common marketing “pseudo truth” that downpipe and header companies like to use.

 

[Ttibbe]

fyi, it doesn’t matter if individual cats are EPA approved if the total number of cats is reduced.

All aftermarket downpipes eliminate the secondary cats, and that is most definitely not EPA approved.

Just an FYI. It’s a common marketing “pseudo truth” that downpipe and header companies like to use.

What secondary cats? You're literally replacing two cats with two cats. Mind, I don't actually care if the system is EPA approved -- I use that as more of a proxy for "won't stink and won't throw codes".

 

[Todd]

What secondary cats? You're literally replacing two cats with two cats. Mind, I don't actually care if the system is EPA approved -- I use that as more of a proxy for "won't stink and won't throw codes".

Granted I am not 100% familiar with the CT4, but unless there are main cats untouched in front of these downpipes, then these pipes have the secondary cats removed. That’s a performance opportunity, but an emissions violation in the eyes of the EPA.

 

[Kawman]

Granted I am not 100% familiar with the CT4, but unless there are main cats untouched in front of these downpipes, then these pipes have the secondary cats removed. That’s a performance opportunity, but an emissions violation in the eyes of the EPA.

The primary cats are further upstream, closer to the turbos (untouched). The down pipes only contain the secondary cats.

 

[Todd]

The primary cats are further upstream, closer to the turbos (untouched). The down pipes only contain the secondary cats.

Ok, looking into this further, I can see that there may be confusion here.

I can even tell from the thumbnail of this video that there are secondary cats.

Common misconception, as the OE “cat assembly” looks like one big cat, but there is an air gap between the primary and secondary stage. That’s where the second O2 sensor sits.

Aftermarket dps replace the primary cat with a higher flowing one and delete the secondary (they aren’t monitored by O2 sensors, so they can be deleted without a CEL).

I don’t know of any modern US market gasoline car that doesn’t have secondary OE cats, they are there for cold running emissions control.