For the sake of resale value I hope this is a mistake

[savethemanual]

A lower option 4BW manual will also hold pretty good long-term value, most likely

I tend to agree on this. I foresee that a low-ish mileage ct4 V blackwing with a sticker price of around 65K will be worth around 40K 5 years later. I would be content with that kind of depreciation. Would work out to a 500$ a month lease deal for me.

 

[PrimeTime]

I thought we were discussing deals and cars sitting on lots overpriced with no one to love them? Did I get this S!@# wrong again?

 

[PrimeTime]

I have a 23 BRZ on order that is supposed to be delivered next month.... It will be for my son, not me...

Thats a nice buy. I'm a fan of Subaru as well!

 

[MookdocOE]

The problem is that there is no such thing as a "take rate" on manuals for the Blackwing, because a significant portion of Blackwings produced were dealer stock orders. And dealers buying for their own stock vastly favor automatics, because that is what they think everyone wants. When shopping for my car, two dealerships told me that they only order autos and only black and white.

If there were a way to filter pre-sold orders from dealer stock orders, we'd be able to get a much more accurate idea of the real demand for manual vs. automatic.

100% inaccurate my friend. The orders are 100% dependent upon the order or take rate?

 

[MookdocOE]

Thanks Rory I appreciate it!

A Cadillac spokesperson told Road & Track that currently, the take rate for the manual on the CT4-V Blackwing is approximately 40 percent and it's around 50 percent for the CT5-V Blackwing. Those those levels are actually down from the first cars sold. "If you looked at those earlier adopters that were—I'm not saying that the people today aren't real enthusiasts—but those people that really wanted one of the last stick shift V-8 real-wheel drivers, for an example, we over-indexed on manual, and then it sort of smoothed out a bit," Cadillac VP Rory Harvey said.

 

[jbawden]

One husky friend lighter and few inches smaller does not elevate the 4 into a different category than the 5. They are both touring saloons or sports cars, you pick. I do however think they are in different subjective categories.

The current inventory of 4BW is reflective of the fact that the A10 4 has a crowded peer group. No doubt both the 4 and 5 are great cars, but frankly the int/ext styling is middling and the brand doesn't carry much swagger (and I gather for many shoppers that's a thing). The LT4 and a manual (edit: in such a practical and unique package: sedan) is such an outlier in the market (past and present) many find it an inconceivably compelling reason to summons the extra money to get into one. I know I would have been in 4BW money if the 5 never existed with a manual.

 

[PrimeTime]

One husky friend lighter and few inches smaller does not elevate the 4 into a different category than the 5. They are both touring saloons or sports cars, you pick. I do however think they are in different subjective categories.

The current inventory of 4BW is reflective of the fact that the A10 4 has a crowded peer group. No doubt both the 4 and 5 are great cars, but frankly the int/ext styling is middling and the brand doesn't carry much swagger (and I gather for many shoppers that's a thing). The LT4 and a manual is such an outlier in the market (past and present) many find it an inconceivably compelling reason to summons the extra money to get into one. I know I would have been in 4BW money if the 5 never existed with a manual.

That's a fair assessment and completely understood IMO.

 

[Dubbed.theB]

If it was all about the motor and only the motor, I, as well as most others would go the cheaper route and buy the Camaro ZL1 or a slightly older Corvette Z06... but since there are multiple other factors and personal wants/needs on a per-person basis, those aren't always the answer. I personally don't feel like the 5 is worth the extra money.

 

[jbawden]

I left out a critical element to my previous comment...its not only about the LT4, it's about the LT4 connected to a manual, in a sedan. In the complete history of automobiles the manual 5BW is full on unicorn. It's absolutely worth the money, every penny! Nothing this cable (by every metric), engaging, and in such a livable daily driver package has ever existed, and never will exist again.

 

[raptor5244]

If it was all about the motor and only the motor, I, as well as most others would go the cheaper route and buy the Camaro ZL1 or a slightly older Corvette Z06... but since there are multiple other factors and personal wants/needs on a per-person basis, those aren't always the answer. I personally don't feel like the 5 is worth the extra money.

I really like the 5BW but my 2021 ZL1 brand new was $67k, MSRP. While the 5BW has a nicer interior and more livable I couldn’t justify the $30k+ delta. Furthermore, I realized the LT4 is over the limit where I live. I just spent most of the time restraining the beast. The 4BW is the sweet spot for me.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Thanks Rory I appreciate it!

A Cadillac spokesperson told Road & Track that currently, the take rate for the manual on the CT4-V Blackwing is approximately 40 percent and it's around 50 percent for the CT5-V Blackwing. Those those levels are actually down from the first cars sold. "If you looked at those earlier adopters that were—I'm not saying that the people today aren't real enthusiasts—but those people that really wanted one of the last stick shift V-8 real-wheel drivers, for an example, we over-indexed on manual, and then it sort of smoothed out a bit," Cadillac VP Rory Harvey said.

This proves my point exactly. All of the initial orders were pre-sold customer orders, which would favor manuals. Later, when dealers were getting allocations but didn't always have a customer order in the queue, they overwhelmingly favored autos. You can't gauge customer demand for auto vs. manuals based on the percentage of each produced. So the "take rate" as they are quoting doesn't represent customer demand.

There are far fewer dealer stock orders for CT5s, thus the higher manual "take rate".

 

[MookdocOE]

This proves my point exactly. All of the initial orders were pre-sold customer orders, which would favor manuals. Later, when dealers were getting allocations but didn't always have a customer order in the queue, they overwhelmingly favored autos. You can't gauge customer demand for auto vs. manuals based on the percentage of each produced. So the "take rate" as they are quoting doesn't represent customer demand.

There are far fewer dealer stock orders for CT5s, thus the higher manual "take rate".

I think your confused as it's clearly stated "take rates" for ordered vehicles? Spin it however you want....lol

 

[Throat Yogurt]

I think your confused as it's clearly stated "take rates" for ordered vehicles? Spin it however you want....lol

No, you're the one confused, because you (and Cadillac PR) are using take rate as customer demand. And as I have shown, that is not the case.

 

[Tall Steve]

 

[quikag]

Thats a nice buy. I'm a fan of Subaru as well!

I have a '22 Subaru BRZ Limited six-speed manual I got from Sewell as well. They are AWESOMELY fun cars. I track it and slide it around town. It's a blast of a car.

 

[Tall Steve]

I have a '22 Subaru BRZ Limited six-speed manual I got from Sewell as well. They are AWESOMELY fun cars. I track it and slide it around town. It's a blast of a car.

Glad to hear this because I ordered one all loaded out for my son... I had to wait for approximately 6 weeks on a list and then the order got picked up a couple of weeks ago.... Sewell stated that it should be here next month....

 

[raptor5244]

I have a '22 Subaru BRZ Limited six-speed manual I got from Sewell as well. They are AWESOMELY fun cars. I track it and slide it around town. It's a blast of a car.

Nice, the Miata is a blast as well. 2300lbs and the top goes down. Feels like a street legal go-kart.

 

[poor-sha]

I’m in at $50k for a manual 4BW with PDR. That puts it in the street car for my wife and backup track toy for me category.

 

[savethemanual]

I’m in at $50k for a manual 4BW with PDR. That puts it in the street car for my wife and backup track toy for me category.

Should be able to get a used one in a couple of years for that price.

 

[TTc8HTC]

How much below MSRP would you guys pay for a used CT5 BW?

These prices are just pushing me into a Tesla S Plaid.
8 second capable, 1k+ HP, AWD, no maintenance, looks great, etc.

I already have a SS Sedan with a stick and a C8, so I refuse to allow some seller to rape me.