CT4-V Cadillac vs. GM Dealerships

[raptor5244]

My dealer never did and still hasn’t mentioned that I have a free Spring Mountain track experience that came with the purchase of the car!!

I would assume they have no idea what Spring Mountain even is. This is an enthusiast car sold by non-enthusiast dealers/sales folks. It is a great car with a branding problem.

Ideally GM should have a dedicated performance division where all they sell would be things like Camaros, Corvettes, sports sedans like the Blackwings, performance trucks, etc. and then staff this division with trained enthusiast sales teams. But instead they will waste billions on failed EV stuff...

 

[rubberduck]

The traditional dealership days are numbered. The next generation of buyers will avoid dealerships at all costs if possible. The Tesla buying model is the future, total game changer. Build your car online, leave a deposit, specify loan, lease or pay cash, wait for VIN, schedule delivery, drive home. And then if you need service, they come to you, scheduled via the mobile app.

Not so fast, it may take a lot longer than you think. And some states are passing laws to make it more difficult. Like every new idea there will be major challenges to overcome.

WSJ News Exclusive | EV Startup Fisker Ditches Tesla-Style Direct Sales Model

The CEO said that direct-to-consumer sales are more expensive than expected for the electric-vehicle startup.

www.wsj.com

 

[raptor5244]

Not so fast, it may take a lot longer than you think. And some states are passing laws to make it more difficult. Like every new idea there will be major challenges to overcome.

WSJ News Exclusive | EV Startup Fisker Ditches Tesla-Style Direct Sales Model

The CEO said that direct-to-consumer sales are more expensive than expected for the electric-vehicle startup.

www.wsj.com

True, dealers will have to continue to adapt though.

Tesla has seemed to figure it out. I bought a couple from them and it was so simple. I also really like the mobile service as well. I needed a couple of 12v battery replacements over the past 5 years, click service in the app, they text when they are on their way. In fact, unless they need a lift or special equipment they fix stuff in your driveway.

Tesla is way ahead of the rest of the competition though. Battery tech, supercharging network, user interface and software, OTA updates are super smooth. For a daily driver that you can charge in your garage at home it is tough to beat.

 

[rubberduck]

I just see a future where people are more disconnected than ever with devolving social skills. A lot can be learned from face-to-face negotiations, hard to do on the internet. The next generation will be sitting at home and not doing anything; maybe many are already doing that and don’t need a car anyway.

 

[FLYARMY]

My next door neighbor recently bought an EV Hyundai. A small car for his wife to putz around town in. Over the summer he was bragging about how great EV cars are and the benefits over gas engines. Well, the other day I saw the tow truck dropping off his wife's car in the driveway. Apparently she ran out of "go juice" and had to have it towed home. The tow bill wiped out his gas savings for the year !

 

[rubberduck]

I take Uber a lot to go to the airport. This summer I was chatting with a driver and he said he doesn’t use his Tesla on hot days because the range sucks. He wasn’t driving his Tesla that day. I feel like EVs are a niche market and given their high initial cost compared to ICE, market penetration will hit a standstill after the initial rise.

 

[raptor5244]

I take Uber a lot to go to the airport. This summer I was chatting with a driver and he said he doesn’t use his Tesla on hot days because the range sucks. He wasn’t driving his Tesla that day. I feel like EVs are a niche market and given their high initial cost compared to ICE, market penetration will hit a standstill after the initial rise.

It is not the heat that impacts range, it is the cold. EVs are definitely not for everyone. I have one but compliment it with two other ICE based vehicles. That said, the Tesla Model 3 does all the daily driving duty. I bought the standard Model 3 over four years ago and it has been great. It was $36k and gets about 200 miles per charge. Plug it in at night, drive 200 miles, rinse and repeat. Costs about $5 in electricity to charge it up. The only thing I have done in 60k miles is add washer fluid, a set of tires and a 12v battery. Wife says she never wants a gas car again or have to visit a gas station.

 

[raptor5244]

My next door neighbor recently bought an EV Hyundai. A small car for his wife to putz around town in. Over the summer he was bragging about how great EV cars are and the benefits over gas engines. Well, the other day I saw the tow truck dropping off his wife's car in the driveway. Apparently she ran out of "go juice" and had to have it towed home. The tow bill wiped out his gas savings for the year !

Sounds like a defective end user.

Running out of battery charge is no different than running out of gas.

 

[Slick Blackwings]

Sounds like a defective end user.

Running out of battery charge is no different than running out of gas.

It is much different, five gallons of gas ️ and five minutes to put it in versus a tow to nearest plug! If you can find one

 

[rubberduck]

It is not the heat that impacts range, it is the cold. EVs are definitely not for everyone. I have one but compliment it with two other ICE based vehicles. That said, the Tesla Model 3 does all the daily driving duty. I bought the standard Model 3 over four years ago and it has been great. It was $36k and gets about 200 miles per charge. Plug it in at night, drive 200 miles, rinse and repeat. Costs about $5 in electricity to charge it up. The only thing I have done in 60k miles is add washer fluid, a set of tires and a 12v battery. Wife says she never wants a gas car again or have to visit a gas station.

I see you’re in Florida which may be the most benign temperature conditions for an EV. It doesn’t get hot there like it does in Southern Arizona. Do a little bit of searching and you will see heat does severely impacts EV range and the Uber driver was correct. The asphalt can get to 160F. In the summer if I’m in heavy traffic going slow my 5BW M6 transmission will hit 200F. I see the temperature rising when I’m not even moving. Compare that to a normal temp of around 130F-140F.

 

[BimmerFan]

I just see a future where people are more disconnected than ever with devolving social skills. A lot can be learned from face-to-face negotiations, hard to do on the internet. The next generation will be sitting at home and not doing anything; maybe many are already doing that and don’t need a car anyway.

So, not to go too far off topic here (apologies) but I was watching a "Frontline" episode about the Discord leaks - that MA Air National Guardsman kid who leaked all of that intelligence data a year or two ago. The other kids that "knew" him on Discord suggested that a lot of what went on, on what is basically a social media platform, was largely d/t the fact that kids are more isolated (lockdowns, society, etc.) and rarely meet IRL. So they could do and say things that are typically not socially acceptable, but because it was a small group of people with similar interests, they could get away with it. Natch, it's not really a small group because it's the Internet.

So, yes, I concur with the Duck. Mr. Duck. The Duckster. Duckeroonie.

However, how many of us have ever been a victim of a pushy car salesperson, trying to close the sale, pushing extended warranties and fabric protection? A lot of that profit goes out the window when you can do it all on the Internet.

I was helping my youngest's diagnose and fix his girlfriend's Honda CRV w/207K miles on it (no start condition). It looked like, to me, that she hadn't washed it since she bought it, the inside was full of trash/stuff and he's the same with his car (26 years old). These are just appliances to most of these kids. It's a tool, only needed to get to work and back. They both work in industries where they have to actually be physically present, otherwise I'm sure they'd just stay home, get food delivered and never leave the house.

 

[rubberduck]

So, not to go too far off topic here (apologies) but I was watching a "Frontline" episode about the Discord leaks - that MA Air National Guardsman kid who leaked all of that intelligence data a year or two ago. The other kids that "knew" him on Discord suggested that a lot of what went on, on what is basically a social media platform, was largely d/t the fact that kids are more isolated (lockdowns, society, etc.) and rarely meet IRL. So they could do and say things that are typically not socially acceptable, but because it was a small group of people with similar interests, they could get away with it. Natch, it's not really a small group because it's the Internet.

So, yes, I concur with the Duck. Mr. Duck. The Duckster. Duckeroonie.

However, how many of us have ever been a victim of a pushy car salesperson, trying to close the sale, pushing extended warranties and fabric protection? A lot of that profit goes out the window when you can do it all on the Internet.

I was helping my youngest's diagnose and fix his girlfriend's Honda CRV w/207K miles on it (no start condition). It looked like, to me, that she hadn't washed it since she bought it, the inside was full of trash/stuff and he's the same with his car (26 years old). These are just appliances to most of these kids. It's a tool, only needed to get to work and back. They both work in industries where they have to actually be physically present, otherwise I'm sure they'd just stay home, get food delivered and never leave the house.

Dealing with pushy people is just part of life, whether it be in business or our personal lives. Who hasn't been ripped off a few times in their life? Did we learn something valuable that day (only a dummy wouldn't). In the 90's I had a Dodge dealer in LA "lose" my drivers license when they made a photocopy. A tactic to keep me in the showroom as long as possible. I told the sales guy that I would not continue any more talks until I got my license back. They still refused to give it back and I left without it. The next day I was able to go back and retrieve it; They were probably concerned that I would file a Police report. The lesson I learned that day was never to let my drivers license out of my sight. I could tell some very colorful rip off stories involving strippers, stereo equipment, etc, but this is a car forum so I'll stay on topic.

One of my favorite phrases from David Goggins is that life's lessons are not learned at the top of the mountain. One can avoid the showroom, but the internet is no safe place either.

 

[raptor5244]

It is much different, five gallons of gas ️ and five minutes to put it in versus a tow to nearest plug! If you can find one

I hear you but ideally you charge at home at night while you sleep and always leave the next day with a full charge so you really never need to charge on the road unless you are on a road trip. In the past 5 years I have never need to supercharge on the road.

That said, even if you do need to charge on the road, look how fast the charge rate is. 5 minutes of charge should definitely get you enough electrons to get back home and charge at cheaper electricity rates.

 

[raptor5244]

So, not to go too far off topic here (apologies) but I was watching a "Frontline" episode about the Discord leaks - that MA Air National Guardsman kid who leaked all of that intelligence data a year or two ago. The other kids that "knew" him on Discord suggested that a lot of what went on, on what is basically a social media platform, was largely d/t the fact that kids are more isolated (lockdowns, society, etc.) and rarely meet IRL. So they could do and say things that are typically not socially acceptable, but because it was a small group of people with similar interests, they could get away with it. Natch, it's not really a small group because it's the Internet.

So, yes, I concur with the Duck. Mr. Duck. The Duckster. Duckeroonie.

However, how many of us have ever been a victim of a pushy car salesperson, trying to close the sale, pushing extended warranties and fabric protection? A lot of that profit goes out the window when you can do it all on the Internet.

I was helping my youngest's diagnose and fix his girlfriend's Honda CRV w/207K miles on it (no start condition). It looked like, to me, that she hadn't washed it since she bought it, the inside was full of trash/stuff and he's the same with his car (26 years old). These are just appliances to most of these kids. It's a tool, only needed to get to work and back. They both work in industries where they have to actually be physically present, otherwise I'm sure they'd just stay home, get food delivered and never leave the house.

Totally agree, but I don't see this changing much with the current state of technology. This is just the initial phase until we eventually merge and become one with the machines.

 

[jbawden]

My wife really wanted a model 3, so we ordered one. The Tesla purchase and ownership experience is, in my opinion, a direct reflection of Elon's personality. It was highly efficient, a bit cold, and generally without human interaction. My BW purchase was a perfect hybrid of online paperwork and in-person interaction. It should not be an all day affair to buy a car, but then again I know exactly what I want and I'm perfectly comfortable pushing back on sales and finance staff.

The formula is simple, just make the process efficient and offer a service department with integrity and staffed with competent techs. I don't need or want million dollar showrooms because just like "free" service, as consumers we are paying for it...that shit ain't free people!!

 

[Roadhawk]

Totally agree, but I don't see this changing much with the current state of technology. This is just the initial phase until we eventually merge and become one with the machines.

Merge with (certainly) and possibly eventually get replaced by.

As an avowed atheist (and believer in evolution) I've occasionally been challenged by folks with "Then what is our Purpose" sort of thing. Well if you believe in evolution obviously this is a non sensible or certainly unknowable question. But my response - which includes what I just said - is often - if I had to guess I would conclude that our "purpose" is to build thinking machines. It is what it is I guess for better or worse.

But there is no question we are changing (as a species) and the pace is increasing - who knows what we'll be in another few generations. Certainly at the very least we'll be a species less appreciative of the joys of ICE cars...sad...I can only hope people will still value nature and the great outdoors...

 

[Roadhawk]

My BW purchase was a perfect hybrid of online paperwork and in-person interaction. It should not be an all day affair to buy a car, but then again I know exactly what I want and I'm perfectly comfortable pushing back on sales and finance staff.

Most of my car purchases over the years have followed this formula (though online stuff is new). I always know exactly what I want and what I'm willing to pay and I go in and lay that out to the sales folks. When they start to bargain and play games I tell them I don't play that way and leave. Usually they will chase me down and eventually I get pretty much what I'm after.

I've helped several friends and relatives buy cars over the years with this formula. Got to admit some of these ADMs and such now are foreign to me and the 4 BW purchase - as quick and seamless as it was - was the first time I've ever purchased a car near the MSRP. I had some trepidation about the whole over the phone sight unseen process (but not the first time I've done this and bought out of state) but it all seemed to work out.

 

[jbawden]

But there is no question we are changing (as a species) and the pace is increasing - who knows what we'll be in another few generations.

WALL-E knows...

 

[Jim2000]

Merge with (certainly) and possibly eventually get replaced by.

As an avowed atheist (and believer in evolution) I've occasionally been challenged by folks with "Then what is our Purpose" sort of thing. Well if you believe in evolution obviously this is a non sensible or certainly unknowable question. But my response - which includes what I just said - is often - if I had to guess I would conclude that our "purpose" is to build thinking machines. It is what it is I guess for better or worse.

But there is no question we are changing (as a species) and the pace is increasing - who knows what we'll be in another few generations. Certainly at the very least we'll be a species less appreciative of the joys of ICE cars...sad...I can only hope people will still value nature and the great outdoors...

You can believe in God and in evolution.

 

[Roadhawk]

You can believe in God and in evolution.

Yeah what do we know really? I am a Daoist...."to know is not to know, not to know is to know"