Media dumps

[dribs15]

The 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Is the Ultimate Refinement of the Muscle Car

It's one thing to make an American sedan with a V8 that's fast; it's another to make it ride and handle with class.

www.roadandtrack.com

... and the video (at the top after a short ad) has some nice sounds, drifting, and smoke

 

[Finally-a-V]

THE OLD 666 ? ( US191)

I like the looks of that one! : I need to put it on my list when I am out that way.

Not sure about the old 666, but yes, Route 191. Curviest road in AZ with 460 turns. Also coming home on Route 60 from Show Low to Globe. That looks like fun too.

 

[shbox]

Not sure about the old 666, but yes, Route 191. Curviest road in AZ with 460 turns. Also coming home on Route 60 from Show Low to Globe. That looks like fun too.

I did tail of the dragon in my ATS. 318 curves in 11 miles. My wife said to first let her out next time and then changed that to never again .

 

[Joespenard]

Not sure about the old 666, but yes, Route 191. Curviest road in AZ with 460 turns. Also coming home on Route 60 from Show Low to Globe. That looks like fun too.

Yes U.S. 666 pre-mid 90s .Then re# . Both Globe / Cliffton^ Alpine, great rides. Also , if u have interest.. The drive up to the top of Mt. Grahm is a hoot .Tight off camber decreasing radius . Hot springs in the Safford area if ur so inclined. Enjoy!

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I did tail of the dragon in my ATS. 318 curves in 11 miles. My wife said to first let her out next time and then changed that to never again .

I did that and Hellbender last year with my wife. My run group was some autoX division champs in prepped Miatas. I wound up having very very blue tinted brakes lol.

 

[shbox]

I did that and Hellbender last year with my wife. My run group was some autoX division champs in prepped Miatas. I wound up having very very blue tinted brakes lol.

At the time I did not realize the Hellbender was the Hellbender, LOL, but I did that too . So many curvy roads in those parts to pick from.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

 

[Berserker]

Jason Cammisa podcast

Thanks for this!

For people wondering where to start listening:

00:12:27: they start talking about Cadillac's history

00:20:17: they start talking about the Blackwings

00:29:03: "If that thing had a V-8 in it ... I could see declaring that the best sports sedan on the planet."

00:43:04: "It's not just the best sports sedan, it's better than most sports cars."

00:54:23: interesting side discussion about Chris Bangle, who said, "Your car is your avatar."

 

[565565]

Interestingly he mentioned that both the CT5 V blackwing and the CT4 V blackwing handle worse than their predecessors.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

Interestingly he mentioned that both the CT5 V blackwing and the CT4 V blackwing handle worse than their predecessors.

To be fair I think the comparison was more to do with the ATS-V vs 4BW as opposed to the V3V vs 5BW. I thought it was more about certain on-limit handling tricks that seemed to be MIA rather than saying new cars are subjectively or objectively "worse". What you lose in on-limit understeer behavior you gain in engine response for example.

As a side on the 5; I've heard multiple reviewers say the car has too much power and it's boring to drive unless you're on a racetrack. Admittedly I'm probably nowhere near as proficient a driver, but due to the 4K RPM break-in limit I was going up and down the gears flinging the 5 down a tight backroad and having a grand old time, enjoying the engine steering and brakes. No, I'm not putting the car on its limit, but sometimes it's just nice to know that bandwidth is there - I don't actually need to floor it and hit redline to have a fun time with it.

 

[DomeDepot]

New Doug video on the Escalade V

 

[Tall Steve]

To be fair I think the comparison was more to do with the ATS-V vs 4BW as opposed to the V3V vs 5BW. I thought it was more about certain on-limit handling tricks that seemed to be MIA rather than saying new cars are subjectively or objectively "worse". What you lose in on-limit understeer behavior you gain in engine response for example.

As a side on the 5; I've heard multiple reviewers say the car has too much power and it's boring to drive unless you're on a racetrack. Admittedly I'm probably nowhere near as proficient a driver, but due to the 4K RPM break-in limit I was going up and down the gears flinging the 5 down a tight backroad and having a grand old time, enjoying the engine steering and brakes. No, I'm not putting the car on its limit, but sometimes it's just nice to know that bandwidth is there - I don't actually need to floor it and hit redline to have a fun time with it.

BUT, when you do use all it's got it's freaking scary!

 

[white98ls]

Thanks for this!

For people wondering where to start listening:

00:12:27: they start talking about Cadillac's history

00:20:17: they start talking about the Blackwings

00:29:03: "If that thing had a V-8 in it ... I could see declaring that the best sports sedan on the planet."

00:43:04: "It's not just the best sports sedan, it's better than most sports cars."

00:54:23: interesting side discussion about Chris Bangle, who said, "Your car is your avatar."

Thanks for this!

I've been Team 5BW since the start, but more and more I feel a little worse about the 5BW and better about the 4BW. Seems as though virtually everyone agrees they like the 4 better, at least dynamics-wise. For me, the V8 and greater space of the 5 are far more appealing (as are the looks IMO), but I don't want to be frustrated feeling like I can hardly let it loose on the street.

I'm really torn on this... of course the 4 costs a lot less, but the 5 will probably hold value much better.

I guess I compare it to the E39 M5 and E90 M3 I have owned before. E90 was a better-driving car in virtually every way except for ride and torque. But the E39 had a certain relaxed but brutish attitude I loved, to the point I actually liked the M5 a little more. Thing is, I'm starting to wonder if the 5BW takes it almost too far where it's too much power and traction management to truly experience it on the street (won't be tracking it or even really driving it on a ton of backroads, as I have a Lotus Elise for that).

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

I guess I compare it to the E39 M5 and E90 M3 I have owned before. E90 was a better-driving car in virtually every way except for ride and torque. But the E39 had a certain relaxed but brutish attitude I loved, to the point I actually liked the M5 a little more. Thing is, I'm starting to wonder if the 5BW takes it almost too far where it's too much power and traction management to truly experience it on the street (won't be tracking it or even really driving it on a ton of backroads, as I have a Lotus Elise for that).

It sounds like your decision process is similar to mine... the other car in my garage is a Porsche 911 - not quite a Lotus - but lightweight, sharp, agile (rear-wheel steer), super tractable and forgiving in terms of what you can get away with adjusting the car going round a corner. All the things folks like about the 4BW.

The question I asked myself is why I would want a second car as a fun daily that prioritizes doing the same thing as the 911, but slightly worse? With the 5BW I get a completely different (as you say, Brutish, possibly, hilarious) driving experience for either road or track - and variety is the spice of life.

I do think the 4BW would be an amazing one car solution or an amazing fun daily/canyon carver when paired with a more pedestrian family car. But if you already have a Lotus, it's not going to beat a lotus on handling and feel.

 

[white98ls]

It sounds like your decision process is similar to mine... the other car in my garage is a Porsche 911 - not quite a Lotus - but lightweight, sharp, agile (rear-wheel steer), super tractable and forgiving in terms of what you can get away with adjusting the car going round a corner. All the things folks like about the 4BW.

The question I asked myself is why I would want a second car as a fun daily that prioritizes doing the same thing as the 911, but slightly worse? With the 5BW I get a completely different driving experience for either road or track - and variety is the spice of life.

I do think the 4BW would be an amazing one car solution or an amazing fun daily/canyon carver when paired with a more pedestrian family car. But if you already have a Lotus, it's not going to beat a lotus on handling and feel.

That's a great way to look at it. Variety is the spice of life, so maybe the 5 is a better fit for me after all.

I've always found myself pairing a relatively slower sports car with a faster daily (S2000 + E39 M5, Elise + E90 M3), and I think that approach makes sense. Most of the time you're not on the limit in a decreasing-radius corner in a daily, so it's better to have instant torque, glorious noise, comfort and practicality for daily travels. That definitely describes a 5!

I'm actually really liking the Civic Type R I got a few months ago as a holdover until the BW is built. But when I think about what I'm missing most in the CTR, it's not that extra edge of handling dynamics a 4BW likely provides, it's the V8 sound and character (and more mature, luxury sedan comfort) that the 5BW has.

 

[Ivy1Le]

As a side on the 5; I've heard multiple reviewers say the car has too much power and it's boring to drive unless you're on a racetrack.

I feel like like most reviewers get rev numbness? I'm not sure how to describe it, it's like they drive such a variety of cars they get used to being up at the top of the rev limit on a lot of them. So they say a car with too much power isn't fun on the street. You don't have to be flat out, redlining every gear to have fun in a car on the street.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

I feel like like most reviewers get rev numbness? I'm not sure how to describe it, it's like they drive such a variety of cars they get used to being up at the top of the rev limit on a lot of them. So they say a car with too much power isn't fun on the street. You don't have to be flat out, redlining every gear to have fun in a car on the street.

Cammisa and DTS are unashamedly Euro guys, and the platonic ideal of "Euro Sports Sedan" isn't a brute V8 with torque for days that you short shift ... it's a light car with a creamy NA straight six, ideally with 250-350HP, where you're ripping through gears to a 7-8K redline.

 

[rubberduck]

Cammisa and DTS are unashamedly Euro guys, and the platonic ideal of "Euro Sports Sedan" isn't a brute V8 with torque for days that you short shift ... it's a light car with a creamy NA straight six, ideally with 250-350HP, where you're ripping through gears to a 7-8K redline.

The I6 is a great engine design with nice exhaust sounds (something a V6 doesn’t have). Have one in my Merc and love it. Problem is finding one mated to a MT.

 

[668LT4]

I had no intention of buying my 4 until it was offered to me. MY 5 was going nowhere at the time (and never got in as a 22, I'm confident it will as a 23). The 4 has been so rewarding it absolutely gives me pause about upgrading to the 5. Not so much for the $, yes, it is a chunky increase, but the 5 will retain value - IMO - much better than the 4. So that is a not only a no-brainer, it is a strong reason for the 5. But I am daily driving mine as much as possible, and the 4 suits the role better. Still, when that email comes about specifying my 2023 5, it is going to be hard to resist.

 

[Tall Steve]

I talk a lot of crap, but I really do like my 5BW when I drive it because of the sound, raw torque, and power! It is very different from the 4BW and I would not want to daily drive it because of Dallas traffic but it is a true beast and turns heads every time I drive it.....