*Should* I pay over MSRP

[raptor5244]

The thing that gets me most tweaked about an ADM is that many of the same dealers that justify them based on claiming that their ADM price is the "market value" of a car will sing a very different tune if you try to sell them a lightly used car of the same model. I had local dealers in CA asking 25-35k over MSRP for GT350s back in 2018 so I bought one out of state for thousands off MSRP and had it shipped to CA. I had never driven one before buying it. I got sucked into the hype on the car from the various publications so I bought one and as things turned out, I didn't really care much for it. So when I decided I wanted to part ways with the car, I called the local ADM dealers to have them make me offers. The double speak was amazing. I litterally had multiple dealers tell me they paid over MSRP to buy some of their new cars out of other dealer's inventory. That was when I looked for a new one locally. Then when I wanted to sell I was told that the new market for the car was 25-35k over but the used market for the car with under 2k miles was 35-40k lower. Wait what?? I thought I would get out of the car unscathed. I lost over $10k and I bought the car for thousands under MSRP.

As far as the car itself went, I probably would have liked the GT350 better if I didn't get the recaros because I felt that the seats were uncomfortable. As a point of comparison, I also had a boss 302 LS tucked away in storage that I used on occasion and had figured the GT350 would be an improvement on that. For me, that wasn't the case. The seats on the GT350 were a major upgrade in appearance from the 2012 boss 302 LS, but also were a major downgrade in comfort and driving position as well as ingress/egress. I also hated the fact that the GT350 has a seating position that is angled slightly inward and too far right. For people under 6ft tall this made clutch modulation over the enormous seat bolsters a chore and had me visting my chiropractor. Then there were the rattles and heat transfer from the engine bay through the firewall and the crazy amounts of vibration that the engine caused. I also felt the boss 302 had a better positioning for the gear shifter and a feel that was much more analog. The GT350 outperfomed it but it felt flat. The on paper stats for the GT350 were amazing, I just hated the reality of day to day with the car. What made me kick myself the most is that I sold an immaculate low mileage 6MT Vagon to get what in hindsight was a POS to replace it. So I sold the GT350, that I bought right, within 6 months for what was still a considerable loss.

Make no mistake about it, your ADM is added dealer profit. ADM dealers are taking advantage of people sucked up in hype and emotion who are willing to empty their wallets to buy something at any price because they have FOMO and think others are doing it so I should too before this ship sails. So what if it does? There are other ports with other ships too. You will not see that money again. If you're ok flusing it, it's your money.

I personally have reached a point in my life where buying a BW5 isn't a financial hardship but I haven't reached the point where I can stop working and have no need for future income. Because of that, I'm not willing to give a dealer more than the 10-12% gross profit margin that a sale at MSRP already allows them. Any $ of profit to a dealer is added depreciation. I'm not about preventing a dealer from making a reasonable profit and frankly MSRP is already a fat profit margin that is not justified for most regular mass market cars but I think is for this more limited production car this early in the production cycle. I think the BW5 will however eventually be offered new below MSRP, just as the BW4 already is in the first model year.

Think about ADM on a business model where floor-planning costs don't even factor in for 60-90 days. The car literally never costs a dealer a cent in finance/inventory costs unless it collects dust and yet some are asking for 20k/20% or more profit margins to turn one in an industry that normally operated at 3-5% gross margins on new sales. For me paying that amount of markup to someone who is bearing no financial risk on that unit of inventory (unless they themselves price it inappropriately) is insanity. But hey, everyone values money differently.

Spot on. I was talking with a Cadillac salesman and he was describing how the car business has changed so much during the pandemic. He was saying that he used to have to sell 30 cars per month to make $100k per year, now he says he makes more money selling only 8 cars per month. You find some dealers that will sell at MSRP based on principle and they are investing in the repeat business once this market swings in the other direction. Other dealers are trying to extract as much profit as they can out of each buyer and I am sure those buyers will remember those dealers when it comes time to buy another vehicle or recommend a friend or family member.

 

[Slamminc6]

Here’s the problem, and I am not saying it’s right, actually it’s infuriating to me as well however, if you don’t pay the adm, u dont get the car

 

[rubberduck]

You get a car, just not a 5BW. Lots of us made concessions in terms of options on constraint and paid MSRP. The most important thing is to try to build a relationship with a good dealer. If someone wants a car today they are at the mercy of the wolves.

 

[flipray]

I bought a used one for $125K. My justification are these:
1) MY2022 order is $107K, price would jump to $118K for MY2023
2) No end in sight for the CF constraints, I refuse to drop any of the CF parts. Picked #86-30 Collectors with pretty much everything minus the CCB.
3) Car is already PPF'd and ceramic coated, I would end up spending $4-5K for that alone.
4) Car is built with everything as originally promised, cars have been rolling out of the factory missing parts that needs retrofitting at the dealer. Just not worth the hassle.
5) Car is available now...I've had my order since December, doubt the car would get built as MY2023 with CF parts on it.

 

[Finally-a-V]

I bought a used one for $125K. My justification are these:
1) MY2022 order is $107K, price would jump to $118K for MY2023
2) No end in sight for the CF constraints, I refuse to drop any of the CF parts. Picked #86-30 Collectors with pretty much everything minus the CCB.
3) Car is already PPF'd and ceramic coated, I would end up spending $4-5K for that alone.
4) Car is built with everything as originally promised, cars have been rolling out of the factory missing parts that needs retrofitting at the dealer. Just not worth the hassle.
5) Car is available now...I've had my order since December, doubt the car would get built as MY2023 with CF parts on it.

That was exactly my thoughts too and why I bought pre owned. I gave up CF1 and CF2, but got carbon backed seats and everything else. NO regrets, very happy with my decision.

Mine was also paint corrected, ceramic coated and front half PPF'd. I never would have spent the $5000 to have it done. I do see the value in it since it's been done though.

 

[SacLacFan17]

Update guys: so talked to salesman (text) asking for price drop to no more than 10 over msrp ($10k adm). Would bring total to 108k. He said he would ask his manager (fingers crossed) but I’m getting this thing. Thank you guys for all the advice and I agree I have to be willing to walk away if price isn’t right (and I truly am). Will update you all

 

[raptor5244]

Here’s the problem, and I am not saying it’s right, actually it’s infuriating to me as well however, if you don’t pay the adm, u dont get the car

On the flip side, if you pay the ADM then dealers keep adding them. I know this is unrealistic, but we should have an unspoken rule where we all agree that no one pays more than MSRP. That way, we control the market.

 

[Slamminc6]

Update guys: so talked to salesman (text) asking for price drop to no more than 10 over msrp ($10k adm). Would bring total to 108k. He said he would ask his manager (fingers crossed) but I’m getting this thing. Thank you guys for all the advice and I agree I have to be willing to walk away if price isn’t right (and I truly am). Will update you all

Tell him if he does the right thing you will be back to buy your wife an Escalade because her lease it up in 3 months. What I did and worked. They screw us, we screw them. Get what you want now.

 

[SacLacFan17]

That was exactly my thoughts too and why I bought pre owned. I gave up CF1 and CF2, but got carbon backed seats and everything else. NO regrets, very happy with my decision.

Mine was also paint corrected, ceramic coated and front half PPF'd. I never would have spent the $5000 to have it done. I do see

Tell him if he does the right thing you will be back to buy your wife an Escalade because her lease it up in 3 months. What I did and worked. They screw us, we screw them. Get what you want now.

Haha thanks man! Might need to as they said no.

Still thinking of taking the 110. Made it seem like because of how the used market is dropping that its best to get my trade-in at its highest value (I have a MY20 non-V CT5). They're offering me 40k for it. Does anyone know of anywhere I can try to get more?

 

[Slamminc6]

Haha thanks man! Might need to as they said no.

Still thinking of taking the 110. Made it seem like because of how the used market is dropping that its best to get my trade-in at its highest value (I have a MY20 non-V CT5). They're offering me 40k for it. Does anyone know of anywhere I can try to get more?

Try carmax, see what the offer is.

 

[SacLacFan17]

It was lower but going to go in to see if they offer higher (hoping their appraisers haven't seen too many). Wish me luck (and its actually a V-non BW; love it just want/need that HP and 6MT)

 

[Slamminc6]

I’ll sell you my Blackwing for $115, lol

 

[raptor5244]

Haha thanks man! Might need to as they said no.

Still thinking of taking the 110. Made it seem like because of how the used market is dropping that its best to get my trade-in at its highest value (I have a MY20 non-V CT5). They're offering me 40k for it. Does anyone know of anywhere I can try to get more?

Put the VIN of your 2020 CT5 in Carvana, Vroom, Shift, Driveway.com and then take it over to Carmax. That should give you a good idea of the current wholesale value.

If you look at listings on cars.com and cargurus you will see a lot of price drops going on so yes you can see the used market is correcting quite a bit lately and I would expect even more so as interest rates keep rising.

 

[Finally-a-V]

@SacLacFan17 ......that's also why I made the move when I did. I got what I paid for my 4BW. I doubt I would now since those values seem to be dropping.

 

[M2Cto4BW]

Mid $40s looks the going rate for a CTV5 at a dealer in California so that $40k offer doesn't seem that terrible, especially from a dealer doing a $10k ADM.
I used driveway.com to get an excellent price on my M2C, but 4 months is ages in the current used car climate. So many people did sell cars to resellers/dealers the past year it makes sense it would start to decline.

 

[SacLacFan17]

Most I could get is 41.5k on drift.com (thanks for the advice). Still 1.5 more than dealer so prob going that route until the 5BW comes in.