*Should* I pay over MSRP

[Finally-a-V]

if you plan to keep the car long term then overpaying a bit to ensure you get one now and enjoy it while you can is worth some coin

My thoughts exactly. I plan on keeping this thing until it rusts away, so a little extra now in exchange for having it today verses next year or never was worth it to me.

 

[rubberduck]

My thoughts exactly. I plan on keeping this thing until it rusts away, so a little extra now in exchange for having it today verses next year or never was worth it to me.

That's going to take about 20 years here in Arizona. Getting parts is going to be the problem. I can foresee having the car out of action for a while if something big comes up.

 

[Finally-a-V]

@rubberduck ....you know I kid about the rust. I just mean, I don't plan on getting rid of it in a year or two. For me it's a long term purchase, a collectible.

 

[SacLacFan17]

Your odds increase significantly if you can buy out of state. A quick search on cars.com shows 41 CT5V - Blackwings with M6 available nationwide. If you build your car on the Cadillac site you can see how many are in transit, I see 339 nationwide. Not all of these are spoken for. If the M6 take rate is the same as 2022 then maybe 30-40% of these are manual. most will not have carbon fiber since that is on constraint.

Thank you for the positivity; however I actually started my journey to get the 5BW by doing just that--building, then searching inventory.

I called dealers in Washington, dealers in Texas (including Sewell), dealers in Wisconsin, MI, Florida.

All were spoken for or wanted *At least* 10K over MSRP (which was only 2-3 of the 6+ dealers I called). I also got the impression they did not want to sell to a Californian (but hey thats another issue).

 

[SacLacFan17]

I also am leaning towards paying the ADM, actually.

Its actually a little over 12 (MSRP is 98K on the 23 6MT they're getting, they want 110).

I am going to take the other advice from those who are more frugal (and/or patient ha!) and try to haggle them down to at least 108 for all the reasons you guys have given me--already making a profit, I can find at MSRP, I have 2 orders already in at MSRP, yada, yada.

Hoping it works--but either way I am getting the 6MT fever!

PS--I am 40 but have the knees of a 21 year old--never getting rid of the manual baby!

 

[rubberduck]

In terms of coming up with reasons for your willing to pay price, I’m not sure it needs to be that complicated. There is a price you are willing to pay, the end. A seasoned salesman will always have a counter argument to any logical reason put forward.

There is also a good probability they will further try to screw the buyer with a myriad of other costs. - Trade-in, internet rate, useless add-ons. The key is to not get attached to the object under consideration, but it might already be to late for that. Come in prepared with financing or cash in hand and an out-the-door cost. Have your numbers written down (use of a spreadsheet is helpful) and mentality be prepared to walk. A little brain reprogramming may be needed. The goal is to have your numbers in front of you and tell yourself I will walk if their numbers are higher than mine. At any onset of weakness just go back to looking at your numbers. It may help to write on the top of the spreadsheet or handwritten notes, “I will walk if my numbers are not met.” This may sound extreme and likely unnecessary for a well experienced buyer with good self-control.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

I also am leaning towards paying the ADM, actually.

Its actually a little over 12 (MSRP is 98K on the 23 6MT they're getting, they want 110).

I am going to take the other advice from those who are more frugal (and/or patient ha!) and try to haggle them down to at least 108 for all the reasons you guys have given me--already making a profit, I can find at MSRP, I have 2 orders already in at MSRP, yada, yada.

Hoping it works--but either way I am getting the 6MT fever!

PS--I am 40 but have the knees of a 21 year old--never getting rid of the manual baby!

If I were in your shoes I would make my best attempt at negotiating the ADM and pay whatever we ended up with to get the car now. Think of the extra paid as an investment in your happiness for the next 12 months, or however long it would take to get a car via one of the other orders. You never know what's going to happen in the next year. Make the YOLO move!

 

[LV_V]

I’m vehemently against paying ADM, especially for an ordered car, but if a LOCAL dealer had one available now that was exactly what I wanted I may pony up a couple extra bucks to get it today versus who knows when.

10%+ ADM is very aggressive in a declining economy though…

 

[rubberduck]

The problem with ADM is not so much the money, that is replaceable, it's the fact that they are shady sleazebags. That attitude likely permeates to the highest level of management and I would expect shady behavior in other areas of the dealership, like warranty work. If your just buying and plan to use another dealer for everything else that would be a good plan.

 

[jbawden]

@SacLacFan17 If you have an MSRP allocated order that has progressed passed 1100 status, then you are nuts to pay ADM to save a few months wait. I feel like people have lost any sense of the value of money, but not surprising for how much of it is handed out for "free" these days.

 

[raptor5244]

I’m vehemently against paying ADM, especially for an ordered car, but if a LOCAL dealer had one available now that was exactly what I wanted I may pony up a couple extra bucks to get it today versus who knows when.

10%+ ADM is very aggressive in a declining economy though…

Agreed, especially 10% on a $100k car.

 

[raptor5244]

@SacLacFan17 If you have an MSRP allocated order that has progressed passed 1100 status, then you are nuts to pay ADM to save a few months wait. I feel like people have lost any sense of the value of money, but not surprising for how much of it is handed out for "free" these days.

Agreed. Forget ADM, I would not have even paid MSRP if my trade-in value wasn't so strong. The only financially smart way to buy cars in this market is to leverage the increased trade value of your pre-pandemic/pre-inflation vehicle so that you can justify paying MSRP. Then you have to be prepared for when the market value drops again, which it eventually will do.

 

[Slamminc6]

If you buy a car of this caliber you ain’t worrying about $2k tires and gas. At least I’m not….

 

[hawgs911]

Can't get mad at dealers charging ADM if people are willing to pay them.

 

[LV_V]

Can't get mad at dealers charging ADM if people are willing to pay them.

Mad is the wrong word, at least for me. More like creating unnecessary angst towards them, because now I hope those ADM dealers lose their ass sitting on overpriced inventory as the tides begin to shift. Neither approach is “healthy”.

 

[rubberduck]

Of course, always two parties, an abuser and the abused. Can’t have one without the other.

 

[raptor5244]

Mad is the wrong word, at least for me. More like creating unnecessary angst towards them, because now I hope those ADM dealers lose their ass sitting on overpriced inventory as the tides begin to shift. Neither approach is “healthy”.

Unfortunately these high line dealers will continue to stick it to the consumers since the folks that can afford a $100k car can also afford to pay $110-120k, so they wind up paying it. I won't pay ADM out of principle because the dealer is the one making the profit. I would rather GM take that money from me than the dealer.

For example, Tesla had a quite a few price increases over the last 2 years but you see the price online, there are no add-ons or hidden fees, and Tesla makes the money, not some greedy dealer that adds little to no value in the transaction. I purchased two Tesla vehicles and it was by far the best vehicle purchase experience I every had.

I hope that more manufacturers move to this direct purchase model and turn those dealerships into service centers for warranty work and collision centers. That is pretty much all you need once they convert to EVs. I am 4 years into my Tesla EVs and all I have done is tires at Costco and add washer fluid. I needed the 12v battery replaced and I schedule it via the Tesla mobile app and they come to the house to replace it. Fantastic.

On the lower end of the market we are starting to see the shift as interest rates hit 6% on new cars now. Also take a look at used car prices. They are all showing pretty frequent price drops. The low to mid end of the market is finally starting to correct. Just remember all those greedy dealers a year from now.

New car prices may soon start coming down — but get ready to pay more in interest

New vehicle prices hit a record in August. Even if they start coming down, interest rates are now at their highest levels in 15 years.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[SacLacFan17]

Tha

@SacLacFan17 If you have an MSRP allocated order that has progressed passed 1100 status, then you are nuts to pay ADM to save a few months wait. I feel like people have lost any sense of the value of money, but not surprising for how much of it is handed out for "free" these day

@SacLacFan17 If you have an MSRP allocated order that has progressed passed 1100 status, then you are nuts to pay ADM to save a few months wait. I feel like people have lost any sense of the value of money, but not surprising for how much of it is handed out for "free" these days.

But I do not. I ordered one at MSRP but not until last month (9/12/2022). Still in 1100 status. The other dealer I found (both in CA one local the other in southern CA) was at $5K over MSRP but I loved the sales guy and figured I would just take whichever came first--until I came across yet another dealer (about 1 hour away) who has the $10K ADM coming in any day now (6MT, 23, everything I want)

If I knew I was progressing with my order it would be an easier decision; but I do not. I am still not even sure they are going to get an allocation especially since the 22 5BW they have committed to someone else (already sold) they *still* have yet to arrive and its been over 1 month since I last looked. Makes me hesitant; but I agree I am definitely going to see if they would work to get that ADM down a bit.

 

[malakas]

The thing that gets me most tweaked about an ADM is that many of the same dealers that justify them based on claiming that their ADM price is the "market value" of a car will sing a very different tune if you try to sell them a lightly used car of the same model. I had local dealers in CA asking 25-35k over MSRP for GT350s back in 2018 so I bought one out of state for thousands off MSRP and had it shipped to CA. I had never driven one before buying it. I got sucked into the hype on the car from the various publications so I bought one and as things turned out, I didn't really care much for it. So when I decided I wanted to part ways with the car, I called the local ADM dealers to have them make me offers. The double speak was amazing. I litterally had multiple dealers tell me they paid over MSRP to buy some of their new cars out of other dealer's inventory. That was when I looked for a new one locally. Then when I wanted to sell I was told that the new market for the car was 25-35k over but the used market for the car with under 2k miles was 35-40k lower. Wait what?? I thought I would get out of the car unscathed. I lost over $10k and I bought the car for thousands under MSRP.

As far as the car itself went, I probably would have liked the GT350 better if I didn't get the recaros because I felt that the seats were uncomfortable. As a point of comparison, I also had a boss 302 LS tucked away in storage that I used on occasion and had figured the GT350 would be an improvement on that. For me, that wasn't the case. The seats on the GT350 were a major upgrade in appearance from the 2012 boss 302 LS, but also were a major downgrade in comfort and driving position as well as ingress/egress. I also hated the fact that the GT350 has a seating position that is angled slightly inward and too far right. For people under 6ft tall this made clutch modulation over the enormous seat bolsters a chore and had me visting my chiropractor. Then there were the rattles and heat transfer from the engine bay through the firewall and the crazy amounts of vibration that the engine caused. I also felt the boss 302 had a better positioning for the gear shifter and a feel that was much more analog. The GT350 outperfomed it but it felt flat. The on paper stats for the GT350 were amazing, I just hated the reality of day to day with the car. What made me kick myself the most is that I sold an immaculate low mileage 6MT Vagon to get what in hindsight was a POS to replace it. So I sold the GT350, that I bought right, within 6 months for what was still a considerable loss.

Make no mistake about it, your ADM is added dealer profit. ADM dealers are taking advantage of people sucked up in hype and emotion who are willing to empty their wallets to buy something at any price because they have FOMO and think others are doing it so I should too before this ship sails. So what if it does? There are other ports with other ships too. You will not see that money again. If you're ok flusing it, it's your money.

I personally have reached a point in my life where buying a BW5 isn't a financial hardship but I haven't reached the point where I can stop working and have no need for future income. Because of that, I'm not willing to give a dealer more than the 10-12% gross profit margin that a sale at MSRP already allows them. Any $ of profit to a dealer is added depreciation. I'm not about preventing a dealer from making a reasonable profit and frankly MSRP is already a fat profit margin that is not justified for most regular mass market cars but I think is for this more limited production car this early in the production cycle. I think the BW5 will however eventually be offered new below MSRP, just as the BW4 already is in the first model year.

Think about ADM on a business model where floor-planning costs don't even factor in for 60-90 days. The car literally never costs a dealer a cent in finance/inventory costs unless it collects dust and yet some are asking for 20k/20% or more profit margins to turn one in an industry that normally operated at 3-5% gross margins on new sales. For me paying that amount of markup to someone who is bearing no financial risk on that unit of inventory (unless they themselves price it inappropriately) is insanity. But hey, everyone values money differently.

 

[M2Cto4BW]

Tha


But I do not. I ordered one at MSRP but not until last month (9/12/2022). Still in 1100 status. The other dealer I found (both in CA one local the other in southern CA) was at $5K over MSRP but I loved the sales guy and figured I would just take whichever came first--until I came across yet another dealer (about 1 hour away) who has the $10K ADM coming in any day now (6MT, 23, everything I want)

If I knew I was progressing with my order it would be an easier decision; but I do not. I am still not even sure they are going to get an allocation especially since the 22 5BW they have committed to someone else (already sold) they *still* have yet to arrive and its been over 1 month since I last looked. Makes me hesitant; but I agree I am definitely going to see if they would work to get that ADM down a bit.

Can you mitigate it at all with a trade-in?
Admittedly if the dealer is doing $10K ADM, they are looking to rinse buyers every way they can and that likely means they are also knob jockeys when it comes to trade-ins, so maybe not a good option.