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white98ls

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Dec 21, 2021
Messages
162
Location
San Jose, CA
Haha, subjective of course. I enjoyed how it drove more than how it looked.

Here is a great video on the beloved SS.
Fun fact: The E39 M5 used in that video is the M5 that I actually owned for 6.5 years. Sold it to a friend who's friends with Cammisa (I am acquaintances with him - at Car Week he complimented me on my Elise's custom plate as he also owns an Elise)

That E39 M5 was also my favorite car I've owned, and what made me really go for the 5 BW.
 

Beamz27

Seasoned Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
381
Location
Illinois
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT4V BW
Yep, except cram the LT1 in to the smaller, lighter, stiffer, much better looking 4BW. The SS was a bigger feeling sedan and wasn't easy on the eyes. Six cylinders are common in the smaller sports sedan space, Lexus, BMW, Infinity, etc. but GM could play to their strengths and differentiate themselves from the pack offer their powerful small block V8s in a small sports sedan.

I get the whole LF4 formula and technically it is a superior engine than the dated small block technology but sometimes none of that matters, and folks prefer the V8 soundtrack.

The LT1 is a great motor. I had 2 6th gen Camaro SS’s and my 19 with the 10 speed absolutely ripped! It’s also amazing on gas. 30 mpg highway with ease and 17-20 mpgs city. It would have been a great option for the 4BW if it fit what they were looking for. But we’ve all heard why it wasn’t an option.
 

Berserker

Seasoned Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
433
Location
Houston, TX
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
'23 CT4-V Blackwing 6MT
That E39 M5 was also my favorite car I've owned, and what made me really go for the 5 BW.

The 4BW is closer in size and power to the E39 M5 than the 5BW is.

4BWE39 M55BW
Length187.6"188.3"194.9"
Width71.4"70.9"74.1"
Height56.0"55.6"56.6"
Wheelbase109.3"111.4"116.0"
Weight3,860 lbs3,957 lbs4,092 lbs
Power472 hp394 hp668 hp
 

Beamz27

Seasoned Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
381
Location
Illinois
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT4V BW
Been there done that and not going down that rabbit hole again....
They were actually great track cars. So I get what you are saying as a former owner of 2 SS sedans myself lol. You can’t find a negative review on that car. Great sedan
 

Beamz27

Seasoned Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
381
Location
Illinois
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT4V BW
Haha, subjective of course. I enjoyed how it drove more than how it looked.

Here is a great video on the beloved SS.
They didn’t look bad but they look much better over in Australia w the more aggressive body kits. They also got the monster performance HSV editions too.
 

Beamz27

Seasoned Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
381
Location
Illinois
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT4V BW
Haha, subjective of course. I enjoyed how it drove more than how it looked.

Here is a great video on the beloved SS.
Ever see one of these? And insane power too. Those Aussies get the insane SS’s.
 

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white98ls

Seasoned Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2021
Messages
162
Location
San Jose, CA
The 4BW is closer in size and power to the E39 M5 than the 5BW is.

4BWE39 M55BW
Length187.6"188.3"194.9"
Width71.4"70.9"74.1"
Height56.0"55.6"56.6"
Wheelbase109.3"111.4"116.0"
Weight3,860 lbs3,957 lbs4,092 lbs
Power472 hp394 hp668 hp
Yeah but I feel like the character of the 5 matches the M5 better, while the 4 matches the M3.
 

PrimeTime

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2022
Messages
661
Location
USA
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
22-5BW
2034 CT4 V Blackwing V8 edition: "Psych! The V8 did fit after all."
Hypothetically speaking, if the the tires have a hard time sticking in lower gears on a 5BW A10 or 6M, what do you suppose it would do in a 4BW? The torque on the LT4 is vicious, as we know. Point and shoot is one thing, on track? To me the beauty of the 4BW is how nimble its sticks on the road, zipping arounds turns and such. I'm thinking an LT4 would have been overkill? Just an observation, food for thought.
 

Vigster

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2022
Messages
168
Location
North Carolina
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2023 CT4-V Blackwing
You sir have now lost your credibility as the SS is a beautiful car.......
PBM Get's no love! That was a beautiful car Steve. I am very, very tempted to find someone to wrap my 4BW. I miss my RPG SS so much. I'll post up pics later

got a brilliant idea
Take my money! Although we'll need a bigger beer fund...
 

PrimeTime

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2022
Messages
661
Location
USA
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
22-5BW
If they built it would you have bought it? Classic.

GM should have given this one a last hoorah as well!


Just a PSA, click on the pic for the full gallery.
 

Vigster

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2022
Messages
168
Location
North Carolina
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2023 CT4-V Blackwing

strohw

Seasoned Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2021
Messages
326
Location
Michigan
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT4-BW
Hypothetically speaking, if the the tires have a hard time sticking in lower gears on a 5BW A10 or 6M, what do you suppose it would do in a 4BW? The torque on the LT4 is vicious, as we know. Point and shoot is one thing, on track? To me the beauty of the 4BW is how nimble its sticks on the road, zipping arounds turns and such. I'm thinking an LT4 would have been overkill? Just an observation, food for thought.

The torque advantage of the LT1 goes away by 3k rpm where they're equal and loses out to the LF4 after that. Have you ever driven the new Supra? The B58 makes full torque at 2krpm which is more than both of these motors. On track you'll have a very small window where you have to modulate the power a bit better but that window is less than 1000rpm.

This is just an opinion on your hypothetical question, not really a LT1 is better than LF4 testament.
 

ClassaxV

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
374
Location
Iowa Colony,TX
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2023 CT4 V Blackwing Raven Black, SkyCool 6spd
I really like the quick revving nature of the LF4 and it sounds decent with the windows down but if they would have stuck the LT1 V8 into the 4BW it would have been epic. Simple formula, V8, Alpha chassis with mag-ride and a Tremec 6-speed.

From a weight perspective the the LT1 only weights like 15lbs more than the LF4, something like 450lbs vs. 465lbs and the power specs are just about the same. I really like the LF4 and appreciate how smooth and powerful it is but the V8 would add more character and a better exhaust note.

I hate to be pedantic, but people keep saying the LF4 doesn't have character or that the V8 has a better soundtrack. What they mean to say is they prefer V8s for the sake of V8s. The LF4 definitely has very nice soundtrack, the car is extremely well insulated so its tough to hear for the driver, but the outside audience is getting an earful!

The V6 turbo is easier to keep on a boil when driving on a race course and really pushes the driver to select the right gear to stay in the boost, and because its quick but not high Revving there are more gearing options for each corner with one still managing to be smooth. SMOOTH IS FAST on a track. Unless you're that annoying guy on the track with no corner speed who digs down every straight before parking in the braking zones, in which case a grunty V8 is more your style, but only to the point, you can maintain grip. Point and Squirt is not my idea of a fun track vehicle. A smooth-flowing pace with the car always on the boost is more fun both from a feel and a challenge-to-do perspective. So the LF4 definitely has Character, just different to a big V8.

I'm over 50 and I daily my 4BW when its not raining. The turbo v6 has plenty of rumble and gets people's attention without being that obnoxious super loud guy with the cammed-out V8 going potato potato potato in the parking lot shaking itself to death at idle. So I like being able to pull up in a business setting in a car that is aggressive enough that even people who don't know what it is clearly can hear it has impressive power, but with the refinement that says CEO, instead of shop project.

And for the record, My parking buddy at work in the M3 comp, prefers the sound of my V6 turbo over his inline 6 turbo, though we both agree his car has more (somewhat unnecessary) Tech and consistently better interior materials in the non-driver touch points. We're thinking of doing a real-world youtube comparison video.

Lastly, the Camaro is the V8 pony/muscle car in the GM lineup, the C8 is the sports/exotic/ hypercar, and the CT5 V BW the hyper Grand Tourer. The big V8 American grocery getter went extinct, killed off by the rise of the Mini Van, SUV and now Crossovers (RIP IMPALA, G8, Caprice, SS, Marauder, Crown Vic, Taurus SHO, CT6 V BW). The 4BW's segment is (Euro)Sports Sedan, all of which are either 6 or 5 cylinder turbos, Everybody plays their position. What is amazing is that the Blackwings are powerful and handle well enough to lead or be right near the top in the GT and Muscle Car segments with the 5, and Pony, Muscle, and (Euro) Sport Sedan segments with the 4. that's crazy!

 

Berserker

Seasoned Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
433
Location
Houston, TX
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
'23 CT4-V Blackwing 6MT
Unless you're that annoying guy on the track with no corner speed who digs down every straight before parking in the braking zones ...

LOL. You ever run into the guy who was tracking a supercharged C5 Corvette with an automatic trans back circa 2005? I saw him at MSR-Cresson and TWS (where he put it in the wall).

Guy talked and talked and talked in the drivers' meetings. Could not drive for crap. He had 130-ish hp on my Evo VIII, and was holding me up at TWS. But he was fast AF down that main straight ...

We're thinking of doing a real-world youtube comparison video.

Do it!
 

raptor5244

Seasoned Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2022
Messages
426
Location
Florida
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2022 CT4-V Blackwing - 46-381
I hate to be pedantic, but people keep saying the LF4 doesn't have character or that the V8 has a better soundtrack. What they mean to say is they prefer V8s for the sake of V8s. The LF4 definitely has very nice soundtrack, the car is extremely well insulated so its tough to hear for the driver, but the outside audience is getting an earful!

The V6 turbo is easier to keep on a boil when driving on a race course and really pushes the driver to select the right gear to stay in the boost, and because its quick but not high Revving there are more gearing options for each corner with one still managing to be smooth. SMOOTH IS FAST on a track. Unless you're that annoying guy on the track with no corner speed who digs down every straight before parking in the braking zones, in which case a grunty V8 is more your style, but only to the point, you can maintain grip. Point and Squirt is not my idea of a fun track vehicle. A smooth-flowing pace with the car always on the boost is more fun both from a feel and a challenge-to-do perspective. So the LF4 definitely has Character, just different to a big V8.

I'm over 50 and I daily my 4BW when its not raining. The turbo v6 has plenty of rumble and gets people's attention without being that obnoxious super loud guy with the cammed-out V8 going potato potato potato in the parking lot shaking itself to death at idle. So I like being able to pull up in a business setting in a car that is aggressive enough that even people who don't know what it is clearly can hear it has impressive power, but with the refinement that says CEO, instead of shop project.

And for the record, My parking buddy at work in the M3 comp, prefers the sound of my V6 turbo over his inline 6 turbo, though we both agree his car has more (somewhat unnecessary) Tech and consistently better interior materials in the non-driver touch points. We're thinking of doing a real-world youtube comparison video.

Lastly, the Camaro is the V8 pony/muscle car in the GM lineup, the C8 is the sports/exotic/ hypercar, and the CT5 V BW the hyper Grand Tourer. The big V8 American grocery getter went extinct, killed off by the rise of the Mini Van, SUV and now Crossovers (RIP IMPALA, G8, Caprice, SS, Marauder, Crown Vic, Taurus SHO, CT6 V BW). The 4BW's segment is (Euro)Sports Sedan, all of which are either 6 or 5 cylinder turbos, Everybody plays their position. What is amazing is that the Blackwings are powerful and handle well enough to lead or be right near the top in the GT and Muscle Car segments with the 5, and Pony, Muscle, and (Euro) Sport Sedan segments with the 4. that's crazy!


I don't disagree with what you are saying. I actually like the LF4 better than the LT1/LT4 with the exception of the sound. I actually traded a ZL1 for a 4BW and like it much better. I am nitpicking when I say it needs the V8 sound track. I would prefer it, but it was not a deal breaker for me. I was actually interested in trying out a twin turbo platform since I had never owned one.
 

Beamz27

Seasoned Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
381
Location
Illinois
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT4V BW
Hypothetically speaking, if the the tires have a hard time sticking in lower gears on a 5BW A10 or 6M, what do you suppose it would do in a 4BW? The torque on the LT4 is vicious, as we know. Point and shoot is one thing, on track? To me the beauty of the 4BW is how nimble its sticks on the road, zipping arounds turns and such. I'm thinking an LT4 would have been overkill? Just an observation, food for thought.
I think originally people were implying the LT1. The LT4 would be overkill big time
 

ClassaxV

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
374
Location
Iowa Colony,TX
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2023 CT4 V Blackwing Raven Black, SkyCool 6spd
LOL. You ever run into the guy who was tracking a supercharged C5 Corvette with an automatic trans back circa 2005? I saw him at MSR-Cresson and TWS (where he put it in the wall).

Guy talked and talked and talked in the drivers' meetings. Could not drive for crap. He had 130-ish hp on my Evo VIII, and was holding me up at TWS. But he was fast AF down that main straight ...



Do it!
I was still running motorcycles exclusively back then but its the same thing, guy buys a liter bike and pins it down the straights only to have someone on a 250 reel him in and be frustrated they can't get by because he drag races everyone down the straights.
TWS was so much fun, tipping into turn 1 with your knee and elbow on the deck at something norh of 110mph is such a rush. I miss that track!!!! 😭😭😭
I don't disagree with what you are saying. I actually like the LF4 better than the LT1/LT4 with the exception of the sound. I actually traded a ZL1 for a 4BW and like it much better. I am nitpicking when I say it needs the V8 sound track. I would prefer it, but it was not a deal breaker for me. I was actually interested in trying out a twin turbo platform since I had never owned one.
No worries, I quote because it was so well composed, but it seems many professional reviewers say the same things about the V8 in the 4 yet they don't tend to say the same thing about the b58 in the beamer of needing a V8 in the AMG CLA, or the RS3. Its funny because even driving like a person with some common sense downtown in this car, people turn to look at what is coming before you pass them, so it is not quiet for sure, and the way it pops and gurgles on decel well... its definitely plays its own kind of music.
 

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