EV Thoughts Thread: cause the old farts did their usual thing

[Schn3ll]

I had a Taycan prior to my 4BW, only kept it 6 months. Wanted to try it out but couldn't wait to get rid of it, was a snoozefest with too much tech - lots of issues with the car freezing up and touch screen everything - had a 30 minute trip where I couldn't adjust the stereo at all (besides volume). And I believe that for EV's the Taycan is probably the pinnacle of fun right now.

Really lost interest after a few long road trips - charging was a nightmare.

Wanted to get back into a fun, practical car with a manual - not many of those left. Love the 4BW, just need to get out of break-in.

 

[raptor5244]

I had a Taycan prior to my 4BW, only kept it 6 months. Wanted to try it out but couldn't wait to get rid of it, was a snoozefest with too much tech - lots of issues with the car freezing up and touch screen everything - had a 30 minute trip where I couldn't adjust the stereo at all (besides volume). And I believe that for EV's the Taycan is probably the pinnacle of fun right now.

Really lost interest after a few long road trips - charging was a nightmare.

Wanted to get back into a fun, practical car with a manual - not many of those left. Love the 4BW, just need to get out of break-in.

I traded my Tesla Model 3 Performance for a ZL1 with the A10 and then traded the ZL1 for the 4BW with M6. The 4BW is the most fun in IMO, as it is still pretty small, quick and engaging with the manual. The ZL1 was more raw and visceral but mostly an exercise in restraint. Over the limit to be fun on the street, really needs a track to enjoy it.
The Tesla was great, no complaints as I used it for local travel around town. It makes for a great daily driver. Pulls like crazy to 60mph but without gearing it lacks the same punch in the 70-120mph range. The tech and powertrain was great, the issue is the interior is boring and the performance trim lacked the stuff you expect on a performance model. No sport seats, no hud, no front spoiler, 20" boat anchor wheels and the sport brakes have street pads so they need to be swapped out for any real use. Once you get used to the instant torque, there is not much left and that is why I got bored after a couple years with it.

 

[jumpmanjay]

Didn't necessarily want to start a new thread, but I'd gladly take some E-Ray like electrification on the front axle on my 6MT 5BW

Getting off the line and filling in while flat foot shifting would be *chef's kiss*

 

[Schn3ll]

I agree, I feel like at the behest of tyrannical, woke politicians (who coincidentally don't even drive themselves), manufacturers are all-in on EV's. They skipped a step of hybrids and plug-in hybrids. My wife has a Panamera e-hybrid and it's probably the most ideal powertrain for the vast majority of people. You don't have to plug in if you don't want to, but when she does, she averaged 40+mpg on a 50 mile commute with a 450hp+ AWD car that weighs 4,600+lbs.

The next 911, 992.2, should have a hybrid powertrain and if they offer it in a manual, I think I'll get another 911...

 

[ArgentWing]

I agree, I feel like at the behest of tyrannical, woke politicians (who coincidentally don't even drive themselves), manufacturers are all-in on EV's. They skipped a step of hybrids and plug-in hybrids. My wife has a Panamera e-hybrid and it's probably the most ideal powertrain for the vast majority of people. You don't have to plug in if you don't want to, but when she does, she averaged 40+mpg on a 50 mile commute with a 450hp+ AWD car that weighs 4,600+lbs.

The next 911, 992.2, should have a hybrid powertrain and if they offer it in a manual, I think I'll get another 911...

I completely agree! I'm totally on board with hybrids!! EV's don't make any sense to me!!! The infrastructure isn't there and even if it were I resent that electric power is being represented as "clean energy"! There's nothing clean about burning coal to produce electricity!

 

[Shifty]

I have a hybrid for daily use and they are remarkably efficient vehicles and easy to own. EVs don’t add up right now but I can’t deny it’s the future.

 

[ArgentWing]

EVs don’t add up right now but I can’t deny it’s the future.

As long as it's not in my future I'm okay with that!

 

[jbawden]

There needs to be a lot of technological advancement before BEV become the real future. Not suggesting ICE is here to stay or that BEV are a fad, but we have a LONG way to go before there is a net positive environmental benefit to BEV.

I guess the transition away from ICE is a lot easier when your target market deliberately ignores the realities of BEV production for the sake of virtue signaling that they care about the environment.

 

[Finally-a-V]

IMHO, the gov and manufacturers should have gone hybrid first, then ease us into full EV. Where many people live, be it rural areas or apartments, charging and/or range can be, or is, an issue. I think if people could embrace hybrid (assuming they understand it), it would be an easy step to EV. I can see that's how I would make the jump to EV. I think it will be two car families that can go EV. Use the EV for around town, to work, the store. Your gas car will be the one that you take on vacations, trips, longer journeys, unless you like to stop every 200 miles for 30 minutes. My mother lived 90 odd miles from us. I couldn't do it in an EV. 90+ miles each way, plus some running around, and no where to plug in. Worthless.

The other issue is and will continue to be infrastructure. It's just not there yet, and will takes YEARS to "get there". And why aren't ALL the manufacturers using the same plug? As far as green goes, pending where your electric comes from, you're no where near green. I read in Car and Driver the average EV has to go 25K to 50K miles to "breakeven" and be more green. Our current grid can't handle the switch. EV's tend to weigh a lot more, using tires faster and destroying our roads faster. And to that end, how are we going to tax EV's? More and more EV's mean less and less gas tax to fix our roads. And what's fair? Tax by weight? Cost? Mileage? Miles per year driven would be the "fair" way, but that might mean upon registration you will have to show proof of mileage, or perhaps when your do you taxes. Imagine that nightmare. And how many will cry privacy?

Not saying I'm right or wrong. Just random crap that runs through my mind on this debate. Food for thought. Don't mean to argue. Alright, as you were, carry on.

 

[Big Mac]

Big oil has done a great job with their propaganda campaign that EVs are more harmful to the environment than ICE. There are lots of studies (non oil funded) that debunk this but the EPA has a decent overview:

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

I'm about to take delivery of an EV. I love the blackwing, but I forgot how inconvenient getting gas every week is, especially in the cold weather. It seems like a small thing, but after driving EVs for a few years it's a real pain in the ass.

Coincidentally, my first EV was the Cadillac ELR which got about 40 miles of EV range before the engine kicked in. The car was slow as hell, but looked awesome and had a great interior and actually handled well despite the lack of speed. I only dropped it because the battery got to the point after a few years that it couldn't get me to and from work without needing some gas.

My wife still has in ICE, so charging infrastructure was a non issue for me. I'd say once a year at the most I had to take her car.

 

[Finally-a-V]

@Big Mac ....some good info there. Put out by the govt, but some good stuff.

You prove my point. Two cars. One EV, one gas. If we had hybrids that could go 50, 75 or 100 miles, that would be great. You could run around to the store, etc., and never use gas, but go on a trip, then the gas engine kicks in. I'd be in.

Two other issues....1..can we really recycle these batteries? Do we fully know how? How much is truly recycled? We can't even recycle our trash right. We don't do glass any more. Only 5-7% of plastic is recycled. 2...We are doing tremendous damage to our environment mining for lithium. I also read that for every pound we mine, 85% is waste.

I'm not a "tree hugger" by any means, but I think we have a long way to go.

 

[RancidSumo]

I have no use for a full EV until range (in all circumstances) starts hitting 400-500 miles and I don't have to do any planning/praying for charging on road trips. I'm with the posters in this thread saying PHEVs are the way to go for now. With 30-50 miles of electric range and a gas engine for longer drives, I would eliminate 90% of my gasoline use (well, 90% of my wife's gasoline use/~60% of our household use since I'm in a gas car). The argument many EV fanatics default to on range discussions is that the average person drives less than 50 miles per day so long range batteries aren't necessary. By that same logic we don't need to be using the resources to build cars with 250-300 mile batteries (and having to suffer through the ridiculous vehicle weight, odd sizes caused by batteries in the floor, and increased environmental impact the larger batteries cause).

 

[Big Mac]

Yeah true, I've got the backup for long trips. If I'm ever lucky enough to get divorced though and was forced to keep only an EV or the blackwing, I'd keep the EV. It's just more convenient on a daily basis and I would just rent a car in the extremely rare event that I take a long road trip that would require more than one stop for charging..

The batteries are definitely recyclable and right now there is an economic motivation to recycle them, unlike our plastic trash where it's cheaper to just create new plastic. Now, if in the future it becomes cheaper to just manufacture new batteries (and there is no gov. regulation requiring the recycling of the old batteries) then we're going to add some nasty waste into the environment.

I'm not a tree hugger either. My family generates way more waste than we should with things like Amazon deliveries. For me, it's really the convenience of no gas stops and no oil changes that is the differentiator. The handling, acceleration, and silence are definite bonuses but the convenience factor is my decider.

 

[Vigster]

Good Ol Donut media.
The only concern with the environment (that is always overlooked in the EV debate) is how AWFUL harvesting materials for battery packs is. Sure on average the environmental impact of running an EV is lower than ICE vehicles. But production is significantly damaging.

People like to go on rolling to work in their Tesla sipping their coffee thinking they're saving the world that they don't actually care or think about.

Totally separate rant but I have a conspiracy theory that the government wants more EVs and self-driving cars for monitoring purposes. Tesla has access from their servers to any footage the exterior cameras catch. Would be interesting if FBI or NSA partnered with them for cases... I'll put my tin-foil hat away for now

 

[Big Mac]

Good Ol Donut media.
The only concern with the environment (that is always overlooked in the EV debate) is how AWFUL harvesting materials for battery packs is. Sure on average the environmental impact of running an EV is lower than ICE vehicles. But production is significantly damaging.

People like to go on rolling to work in their Tesla sipping their coffee thinking they're saving the world that they don't actually care or think about.

Totally separate rant but I have a conspiracy theory that the government wants more EVs and self-driving cars for monitoring purposes. Tesla has access from their servers to any footage the exterior cameras catch. Would be interesting if FBI or NSA partnered with them for cases... I'll put my tin-foil hat away for now

Not to go too far off track, but I guarantee your conspiracy theory is a fact, and not just with EVs. They have carte blanche access to your phone & smart devices which gives an even better ability to surviel, but I'm sure they have access to all car data from all manufacturers.

I worked for the #1 major internet provider back in the pre-google era (hint, we committed the largest financial fraud in US history) and we had a lot of the backbone. The internet wasn't even common then, and we had to install duplicate cabinets that the govt used to monitor 100% of traffic. It was called operation raptor or something like that.

 

[Vigster]

Not to go too far off track, but I guarantee your conspiracy theory is a fact, and not just with EVs. They have carte blanche access to your phone & smart devices which gives an even better ability to surviel, but I'm sure they have access to all car data from all manufacturers.

I worked for the #1 major internet provider back in the pre-google era (hint, we committed the largest financial fraud in US history) and we had a lot of the backbone. The internet wasn't even common then, and we had to install duplicate cabinets that the govt used to monitor 100% of traffic. It was called operation raptor or something like that.

Oh don't get me started. We'll derail this thread with privacy act and user agreement debate. I've worked for the DoD using marketing tech and similar things to find "bad guys" overseas. Every new widget or web-enabled program they've shown me makes me want to throw my smartphone in a river.

Pro-tip: read the user agreements, don't let apps access certain features on your phones, and never click on any ads, even if they tell you there's "hot singles in your area". If it's made by China just assume their CIA equivalent has all your biographical information now.

 

[565565]

never click on any ads, even if they tell you there's "hot singles in your area". If it's made by China just assume their CIA equivalent has all your biographical information now.

Shit now the Chinese know exactly the kind of kink I'm into.

 

[Vigster]

Shit now the Chinese know exactly the kind of kink I'm into.

"muffler por....shitt, delete the search history"

If I wasn't busy today I would have put together a video of a BW driving but on upshift pops it makes sex-moans for this response.

 

[Shifty]

Well, today's discussion was refreshingly civil.

 

[Berserker]

There's an interesting EV discussion in the Media Dumps thread. Copying some of it here:

Can I just take a moment to say that I love my BW's buttons and the fact I don't have to dig through 8 levels of menus to turn on my seat warmers?

Seems automakers have decided that one of the only differentiators in the coming world of electric appliance pod cars is going to be the software experience. Powertrain and performance are likely to be pretty much identical for every low to midrange car.

So GM has decided it's going to have be a software company that's going toe to toe with Apple, Tesla on UI/UX. All I can say is... best of luck guys!

That's exactly what management at Ford and GM think - the Ford CEO in particular talks about how they don't have the skills to make EVs. In my mind, an EV is an IC car with a simpler powertrain. Suspension, interior, driving dynamics, manufacturing, sales, parts support, etc are the same. NVH is easier to do.

What Ford and GM don't know how to do are OTA software updates and UX - consumer facing software. GM can sure as hell do the software that runs the actual car as the magride suspension and PTM stability and traction control are the best in the business. And the software running the LT4 and the 10 speed transmission clearly gets the job done too.

The other skill they may be lacking is securing minerals from Congo, China, et al.

They clearly have the skills to make world-class cars, but management doesn't think that will make money. Instead they think they're going to make their money on subscription services or who knows what else and the cars are just a vessel for software you'll happily pay for for the rest of your life through subscription fees. Or they want your in-vehicle data so they can either sell it to advertisers or big data AI / machine learning