EV Thoughts Thread: cause the old farts did their usual thing

[Berserker]

Update: 6 weeks and 1,508 miles into ownership of my '25 Lucid Air Pure RWD.

I'm becoming a believer. Not necessarily in Lucid, but in EVs in general. I'm not totally there yet, but I am closing in.

Home Charging FTW
The Big Thing was that I finally got my home charger. I had to charge on public chargers for the first 3 weeks, which absolutely blew chunks. But part of the reason for this purchase was the learning experience, and *having* to charge publicly was indeed an education. It also rammed home how amazing home charging is. I just pull into the garage and plug it in every once in a while.

And home charging is So. Much. Cheaper. The public charger I used was $0.60/kWh with all taxes. My home electricity is $0.16/kWh with all fees and taxes. Based on that alone, public charging is 3.75 times more expensive. But that cost does not include the cost of driving out of the way to find a charger, and the fact that preconditioning the battery before charging and cooling it afterwards is very inefficient. I ballparked that I was losing at least 5% of my range to the charging experience; 3.75 / 0.9 = 4.16. So overall public charging is over 4 times more expensive.

Charging Cost vs Gas Cost
Comparing the charging cost to the 4BW's fuel cost is interesting, since they're both sporty RWD luxury sedans making 400+ hp that do 0-60 in the low 4s.

In the Lucid I can get a pretty consistent 3.25 mi/kWh overall. At home charging rates that is 20.3 miles per dollar of electricity.

For the Blackwing I'm currently paying about $3.80/gallon. To get the same cost efficacy as the Lucid, the Blackwing would have to get 77 mpg. I get 18 mpg in normal around town driving, and about 24 mpg on long road trips.

At public charging rates, the cost is very similar. In around town driving the Blackwing gets 18/3.80 = 4.73 mi/dollar. The Lucid gets 20.3/4.16 = 4.87 mi/dollar.

Road Trip
Took the Lucid on a road trip from Houston to San Antonio. Had to do only one recharge from 21% to 80% at an Electrify America station in San Antonio. That got me the 217 miles home, with 14% left.

I averaged 3.95 mi/kWh on the way out, and 3.99 mi/kWh on the way back. But on the way back I had to slow down and do the last 92 miles at like 63 mph to make it without stopping to charge again. During that 92 miles I got 4.65 mi/kWh. I did a ballpark calc in my head that I would lose a similar amount of time from slowing down as I would lose if I stopped to charge, so decided to slow down as a further efficiency test.

Interestingly, I suffered no range anxiety whatsoever. I had 1000 miles under my belt before starting the trip. I had public charging experience. And for the prior month I had used the Electrify America mobile app to monitor charger availabity at the three places in the San Antonio area I might choose for recharging, as well as a couple more along the way home.

Overall
I would not take the Lucid - or any EV - over my Nissan Frontier 4x4 or CT4-V Blackwing. I am lifetime member of the "Sports Car + 4x4 Club".

But I am enjoying the hell out of the EV experience. If I am able to continue to afford having three cars, the 3rd will absolutely be an EV.

 

[AdamUCF]

Overall
I would not take the Lucid - or any EV - over my Nissan Frontier 4x4 or CT4-V Blackwing. I am lifetime member of the "Sports Car + 4x4 Club".

But I am enjoying the hell out of the EV experience. If I am able to continue to afford having three cars, the 3rd will absolutely be an EV.

Rivians are pretty solid off road and great EVs. I currently have a R1T and looking at trading it for a 5BW. But we really don't want to get rid of the EV (for the reasons you stated). Probably going to get an R1S for the wife. Seems like the perfect 2 car garage imo.

 

[ngoni]

Update: 6 weeks and 1,508 miles into ownership of my '25 Lucid Air Pure RWD.

I'm becoming a believer. Not necessarily in Lucid, but in EVs in general. I'm not totally there yet, but I am closing in.

Home Charging FTW
The Big Thing was that I finally got my home charger. I had to charge on public chargers for the first 3 weeks, which absolutely blew chunks. But part of the reason for this purchase was the learning experience, and *having* to charge publicly was indeed an education. It also rammed home how amazing home charging is. I just pull into the garage and plug it in every once in a while.

And home charging is So. Much. Cheaper. The public charger I used was $0.60/kWh with all taxes. My home electricity is $0.16/kWh with all fees and taxes. Based on that alone, public charging is 3.75 times more expensive. But that cost does not include the cost of driving out of the way to find a charger, and the fact that preconditioning the battery before charging and cooling it afterwards is very inefficient. I ballparked that I was losing at least 5% of my range to the charging experience; 3.75 / 0.9 = 4.16. So overall public charging is over 4 times more expensive.

Charging Cost vs Gas Cost
Comparing the charging cost to the 4BW's fuel cost is interesting, since they're both sporty RWD luxury sedans making 400+ hp that do 0-60 in the low 4s.

In the Lucid I can get a pretty consistent 3.25 mi/kWh overall. At home charging rates that is 20.3 miles per dollar of electricity.

For the Blackwing I'm currently paying about $3.80/gallon. To get the same cost efficacy as the Lucid, the Blackwing would have to get 77 mpg. I get 18 mpg in normal around town driving, and about 24 mpg on long road trips.

At public charging rates, the cost is very similar. In around town driving the Blackwing gets 18/3.80 = 4.73 mi/dollar. The Lucid gets 20.3/4.16 = 4.87 mi/dollar.

Road Trip
Took the Lucid on a road trip from Houston to San Antonio. Had to do only one recharge from 21% to 80% at an Electrify America station in San Antonio. That got me the 217 miles home, with 14% left.

I averaged 3.95 mi/kWh on the way out, and 3.99 mi/kWh on the way back. But on the way back I had to slow down and do the last 92 miles at like 63 mph to make it without stopping to charge again. During that 92 miles I got 4.65 mi/kWh. I did a ballpark calc in my head that I would lose a similar amount of time from slowing down as I would lose if I stopped to charge, so decided to slow down as a further efficiency test.

Interestingly, I suffered no range anxiety whatsoever. I had 1000 miles under my belt before starting the trip. I had public charging experience. And for the prior month I had used the Electrify America mobile app to monitor charger availabity at the three places in the San Antonio area I might choose for recharging, as well as a couple more along the way home.

Overall
I would not take the Lucid - or any EV - over my Nissan Frontier 4x4 or CT4-V Blackwing. I am lifetime member of the "Sports Car + 4x4 Club".

But I am enjoying the hell out of the EV experience. If I am able to continue to afford having three cars, the 3rd will absolutely be an EV.

Thanks for doing the math. The thing that still blows up the value proposition for EVs is that after 4-5 years you'll need a new battery. Unless things change, that new battery tends to cost at least as much as a new EV sometimes multiples of a new EV. Maybe being able to repurpose your old battery as the house backup battery could help, but until something big changes with batteries EVs are a lease-only option for most.

If you're a cheap bastard like myself the idea of leasing a car is pretty gross compared to properly caring for a car you own and using it for ~20 years. In my mind, that's still the least impactful choice overall.

 

[Berserker]

>Rivians are pretty solid off road and great EVs.

Yeah, I've heard some pretty good things about them. But I play way out in the middle of nowhere in West Texas. I plan gasoline stops out there. I'm not taking an EV down to Big Bend.

And the stuff I do is rock crawling. I'm not sold on banging an EV battery pan down on boulders. The other place I play is beaches, and, again, I'm not yet sold on mixing batteries and salt water.

I would need a range extender engine to be comfortable going where I go. I think the potential is there - especially for pickups where you could give up some bed length and nestle a small rotary engine, fuel tank, and generator between the cab and bed. Some back of the envelope math says a 20 hp range extender would give you basically infinite highway range.

I think the potential for EVs offroad is huge. I don't think the reality is there yet.

 

[Berserker]

The thing that still blows up the value proposition for EVs is that after 4-5 years you'll need a new battery.

That sounds overly pessimistic. I haven't seen any data backing that up. Reputable car magazines report that batteries in the older Teslas have maintained 90% of their capacity after a decade.

I have seen some people buying old Nissan Leafs with toasted batteries, but Leafs have no systems managing battery temperature.

If you're a cheap bastard like myself the idea of leasing a car is pretty gross

This is my first-ever lease.

I did not see keeping this car more than a few years. Lease or purchase, there's no getting around the fact that a 3-year timeframe requires me to eat a lot of depreciation. But with a lease I lock in my losses.

Additionally, Lucid puts a lot of money on the hood for leases. I got $4k of discounts I would not have gotten with a purchase. And the money factor was insane. Every $1000 of cap cost required me to repay $1008 over 3 years. As a bonus, the $7500 EV credit came off the top, and its another entity who has to wonder whether they will actually be able to claim the credit next year. It's not my problem.

properly caring for a car you own and using it for ~20 years. In my mind, that's still the least impactful choice overall

It might surprise you how little folks on the EV forums talk about environmental impact and sustainability and such. Like, seriously, hardly at all. There are way, way, way more "I smoked an SRT Challenger" posts than there are discussions about the environment. Seriously, it's nuts.

The EV driving experience is compelling. Period.

 

[Finally-a-V]

Thanks for doing the math. The thing that still blows up the value proposition for EVs is that after 4-5 years you'll need a new battery. Unless things change, that new battery tends to cost at least as much as a new EV sometimes multiples of a new EV. Maybe being able to repurpose your old battery as the house backup battery could help, but until something big changes with batteries EVs are a lease-only option for most.

If you're a cheap bastard like myself the idea of leasing a car is pretty gross compared to properly caring for a car you own and using it for ~20 years. In my mind, that's still the least impactful choice overall.

I agree. I think going EV, you have to lease. Between the horrible and huge depreciation and the (possible) replacement battery, drive it, beat it, turn it back in.

As far as leasing, unless you keep your car forever or drive a ton of miles, leasing may be a wash. Example: Let's just say you buy a $75,000 car (cash). If you trade it in three years, you get $45K on trade. It cost you $30K over 3 years, or $833 per month. You could have possibly leased for comparable money, PLUS you could have invested the $45k from the trade (that you didn't give to the dealer) and turned that into $55-60K over three years. It's all a ball park. I think if rates come down, or lease deals get good again, that's the way to go. Lease it for 3 years, drive it, beat it, turn it in. No extended warranty costs, no expensive out of warranty repairs. Even my frugal brother is starting to think this way.

 

[MookdocOE]

Thanks at least it's a car type dude giving us the facts and not 23yr old Iphone kid. EV's have there place but end all be ALL is not it!

 

[CBH]

Thanks for the update.

I'll never own an EV, but I'm currently driving one as my primary DD, and its a great city car. Agreed that the perfect combo is an EV for running errands and commuting, and ICE for fun and road trips.

Leasing is also good financially if you don't drive many miles, and don't plan to keep it long. Excellent way to test the EV waters.

 

[FLYARMY]

I've decide to buy that new fangled Cadillac Celestiq. I'm gonna drop $300,000+ and then finance the the car for 30 years (like a mortgage) so I can save on all that gas.

 

[5VBW Nick]

Thanks for doing the math. The thing that still blows up the value proposition for EVs is that after 4-5 years you'll need a new battery. Unless things change, that new battery tends to cost at least as much as a new EV sometimes multiples of a new EV. Maybe being able to repurpose your old battery as the house backup battery could help, but until something big changes with batteries EVs are a lease-only option for most.

If you're a cheap bastard like myself the idea of leasing a car is pretty gross compared to properly caring for a car you own and using it for ~20 years. In my mind, that's still the least impactful choice overall.

There are some with 400,000 miles that still work great. My wife's car is 4 years old and battery works same as new.

 

[MookdocOE]

There are some with 400,000 miles that still work great. My wife's car is 4 years old and battery works same as new.

My 300k chevy truck ran the best it ever has right up until it stopped running..................................................................