Dealers That Are Not Charging Above MSRP

[malakas]

Dealers’ margins are being squeezed across the board, obviously due to lower available inventories and inflation driven operating costs. This doesn’t mean they should lose composure and be unprofessional in customer negotiations, only thinking about the immediate potential sale and not repeat business. Sounds like this GM has the wrong perspective.

I vigorously beg to differ on margins being squeezed across the board. That is a big line of bull that dealers are feeding consumers right now. Don't take my word for it, look at the financial statements, earnings releases, and stock prices of the dealer conglomerates that have been giddy with the amounts they are making. Autonation, Penske, Sonic, all making much fatter margins than pre-pandemic. F&I income alone is averaging over $2000 per car at the big public dealer networks with overall margins close to 5k per new car. That's all cars folks, not just 100k Cadillacs. Cry me a river.

 

[raptor5244]

I vigorously beg to differ on margins being squeezed across the board. That is a big line of bull that dealers are feeding consumers right now. Don't take my word for it, look at the financial statements, earnings releases, and stock prices of the dealer conglomerates that have been giddy with the amounts they are making. Autonation, Penske, Sonic, all making much fatter margins than pre-pandemic. F&I income alone is averaging over $2000 per car at the big public dealer networks with overall margins close to 5k per new car. That's all cars folks, not just 100k Cadillacs. Cry me a river.

Agreed. They are doing just fine. Pre-pandemic we would be buying these cars for 10% off, 15-20% off during end of year. The only way to fix the issue is to resist overpaying. Just let them sit so the market can correct.

Look at what these dealers are asking for the new Z car. These are $54k MSRP.

 

[Tall Steve]

Agreed. They are doing just fine. Pre-pandemic we would be buying these cars for 10% off, 15-20% off during end of year. The only way to fix the issue is to resist overpaying. Just let them sit so the market can correct.

Look at what these dealers are asking for the new Z car. These are $54k MSRP.

View attachment 12900

I would normally do that but this time I needed the car and the bastards had me over a barrel.. My sons car was totaled and he has nothing to drive except my wife car..

 

[raptor5244]

I would normally do that but this time I needed the car and the bastards had me over a barrel.. My sons car was totaled and he has nothing to drive except my wife car..

I hear you. I feel bad for a lot of folks that actually need a car. My local Toyota dealer is charging $3-5k over on Corollas! They got $20k over for the new Tundra. When this market eventually corrects some of the people are going to be so upside down on the loans of these vehicles, they will need to drive them until they die.

 

[malakas]

I have no affiliation with them but Cadillac of Laguna Niguel in Southern California is advertising having 3 in stock BW4's offered at $3000 off MSRP and they note everyone qualifies for the 3k discount. It looks legit. VINs are:1G6D75RP9N0411109, 1G6D75RP8N0411070, and 1G6D75RP0N0410561. All automatics but the last one even has CF1 & CF2.

Here's the link: %VEHICLE_SEARCH_PAGE_KEYWORDS_CAP_FIRST_LETTER% Vehicles for Sale | %DEALER_NAME%

 

[kamome97]

I have no affiliation with them but Cadillac of Laguna Niguel in Southern California is advertising having 3 in stock BW4's offered at $3000 off MSRP and they note everyone qualifies for the 3k discount. It looks legit. VINs are:1G6D75RP9N0411109, 1G6D75RP8N0411070, and 1G6D75RP0N0410561. All automatics but the last one even has CF1 & CF2.

Here's the link: %VEHICLE_SEARCH_PAGE_KEYWORDS_CAP_FIRST_LETTER% Vehicles for Sale | %DEALER_NAME%

wow that looks pretty good, almost too good to be true. i'll give it a call tomorrow and if it's real and if so I might take the 6 hour drive. Auto but better equipped than my 23 on order.

 

[Commonman]

I bet it's true. The 4BW bubble has burst if it's an automatic.

 

[raptor5244]

I bet it's true. The 4BW bubble has burst if it's an automatic.

It is definitely starting to soften considering my dealer went from $50k ADM to MSRP. IMO, this car also gets a bit pricey in auto.

 

[RDATLTE]

I have no affiliation with them but Cadillac of Laguna Niguel in Southern California is advertising having 3 in stock BW4's offered at $3000 off MSRP and they note everyone qualifies for the 3k discount. It looks legit. VINs are:1G6D75RP9N0411109, 1G6D75RP8N0411070, and 1G6D75RP0N0410561. All automatics but the last one even has CF1 & CF2.

Here's the link: %VEHICLE_SEARCH_PAGE_KEYWORDS_CAP_FIRST_LETTER% Vehicles for Sale | %DEALER_NAME%

Interesting as they were not a part of the Blackwing program initially. I believe, due to a change in ownership. I did see an Infrared 4 with CF in the showroom the last time that I was there for service.

 

[M2Cto4BW]

I bet it's true. The 4BW bubble has burst if it's an automatic.

Totally. With a quick unscientific look at listings, the ratio is 5:1.

The gearbox is just so good, the majority of keen buyers go that way. Unlike say M cars where the shifter is just OK and/or only offered in a subset of models.
I get them hedging, just IMHO but I think a bunch of those polished wheel a10s are going to sit and sit, especially up North. 10% off by Black Friday for them?

 

[raptor5244]

Totally. With a quick unscientific look at listings, the ratio is 5:1.

The gearbox is just so good, the majority of keen buyers go that way. Unlike say M cars where the shifter is just OK and/or only offered in a subset of models.
I get them hedging, just IMHO but I think a bunch of those polished wheel a10s are going to sit and sit, especially up North. 10% off by Black Friday for them?

I can see this happening in the colder climates considering the declining economic conditions as well. I have a 2023 on order built to my desired spec but if the market for these cars for drops significantly then they will have to come off MSRP or I will just enjoy what I have.

I think for 2022 the production split was 40% manual, 60% auto. So if you are seeing 5:1 auto sitting on the lots then that explains a lot. I think even the folks at Caddy were surprised to see the take rate of the M6. There definitely is some pent up demand for a sports sedan with a Tremec 6-speed since they killed the Chevy SS. I think if they would have refreshed the Chevy SS with an LT1 V8, Tremec 6060 and updated tech, it would have sold well. Probably better than the Camaro, which is not hard to do.

 

[M2Cto4BW]

Costa Mesa Cadillac in Socal also has 1 loaded (a10) on the lot at $2k off for anyone looking.
Conversely
Link to f%&kwits

Insane, totally clueless pricing. If you lived in a cave and had been lobotomized and was 8yrs old and then ran a dealership and set pricing I could see this, but seriously, WTF are they thinking, lol:

Current OffersSpecifications

• MSRP$79,345
• Marketplace Adjustment 1
  + $40,000
• Jessup Desert Protection Package 2
  + $4,995
• Net Cost$124,340

 

[raptor5244]

Costa Mesa Cadillac in Socal also has 1 (a10) on the lot at $2k off for anyone looking.
Conversely
Link to f%&kwits

They price them like my local dealer. Did they doctor the photo in that first one? It looks like Ceramic Gray.

 

[M2Cto4BW]

They price them like my local dealer. Did they doctor the photo in that first one? It looks like Ceramic Gray.

View attachment 12903

Ya just stock Caddy pics, they don't even have CF on the cheap one, just a10, sunroof, dealer add-on to get the MSRP up to $76k and then the rest, lol, I mean that is just embarrassing.

 

[Finally-a-V]

I bet it's true. The 4BW bubble has burst if it's an automatic.

That's what I said the other day, but some folks didn't believe me. Anyway......

I wonder if dealers who have 2022's want to sell them to free up a 2023 allocation?

And Costa Mesa had a 5 I would have bought in a heartbeat but they wanted $30K over and wouldn't even consider coming down.

 

[malakas]

They price them like my local dealer. Did they doctor the photo in that first one? It looks like Ceramic Gray.

View attachment 12903

Are they still offering the cure for cancer with the purchase of a BW4? If so, I'd jump on it!

 

[RDATLTE]

Costa Mesa Cadillac in Socal also has 1 loaded (a10) on the lot at $2k off for anyone looking.
Conversely
Link to f%&kwits

Insane, totally clueless pricing. If you lived in a cave and had been lobotomized and was 8yrs old and then ran a dealership and set pricing I could see this, but seriously, WTF are they thinking, lol:

Current OffersSpecifications

• MSRP$79,345
• Marketplace Adjustment 1
  + $40,000
• Jessup Desert Protection Package 2
  + $4,995
• Net Cost$124,340

Suburban in Costa mesa is a piece of work! They're the dealership that I initially chose for my reservation order for some reason. Thankfully, I was allowed to change dealerships after what they tried to pull on me.

 

[raptor5244]

Are they still offering the cure for cancer with the purchase of a BW4? If so, I'd jump on it!

No, but they are probably causing ulcers.

 

[Akamai58]

I have no affiliation with them but Cadillac of Laguna Niguel in Southern California is advertising having 3 in stock BW4's offered at $3000 off MSRP and they note everyone qualifies for the 3k discount. It looks legit. VINs are:1G6D75RP9N0411109, 1G6D75RP8N0411070, and 1G6D75RP0N0410561. All automatics but the last one even has CF1 & CF2.

Here's the link: %VEHICLE_SEARCH_PAGE_KEYWORDS_CAP_FIRST_LETTER% Vehicles for Sale | %DEALER_NAME%

Hell, I may check out the Infrared today... It looks to be fully loaded.

 

[RDATLTE]

Hell, I may check out the Infrared today... It looks to be fully loaded.

Looks to be the same one that they had when I was there last. If so, they've been sitting on it for several months. Let me know if you end up coming down. I may know a spot or 2 nearby.