Dealers That Are Not Charging Above MSRP

[Akamai58]

Looks to be the same one that they had when I was there last. If so, they've been sitting on it for several months. Let me know if you end up coming down. I may know a spot or 2 nearby.

I received an email from the sales manager, and they are telling me I could take it for e test drive. I never thought I would hear that on the Blackwing's.
Now I have to check my schedules here on the work we have going to see if I can make the trip. We are swamped with military work because of the war going on.

 

[kamome97]

I received an email from the sales manager, and they are telling me I could take it for e test drive. I never thought I would hear that on the Blackwing's.
Now I have to check my schedules here on the work we have going to see if I can make the trip. We are swamped with military work because of the war going on.

Surprisingly, Cadillac of Stevens Creek was ok with me taking their Blackwing on a test drive early this year.

 

[dribs15]

I received an email from the sales manager, and they are telling me I could take it for e test drive. I never thought I would hear that on the Blackwing's.
Now I have to check my schedules here on the work we have going to see if I can make the trip. We are swamped with military work because of the war going on.

War?...I thought there was just a special operation going on...

...although maybe I should keep my trap shut Why Do Influential Russians Keep Mysteriously Dying? - The Debrief

 

[ClassaxV]

Yeah, I would agree the bubble has burst on the 4BW automatics, Bayway has a black and white one that are now at MSRP plus their 3K tint/wheel/service package. It's crazy because just three weeks ago they were wanting 15K over on a manual.

 

[raptor5244]

Yeah, I would agree the bubble has burst on the 4BW automatics, Bayway has a black and white one that are now at MSRP plus their 3K tint/wheel/service package. It's crazy because just three weeks ago they were wanting 15K over on a manual.

The sudden decrease in price is partly due to the fact that the 2023s are starting to be delivered, plus the market in general is starting to soften. I was able to snag a 2022 4BW with a manual last month for MSRP and it supposedly has $2k in tint and ceramic coating. I assume the enthusiasts who find this car highly desirable mostly prefer a manual and were willing to pay a bit more. If it were only offered in automatic I am not sure I be interested at this price point for a V6. I would have probably stuck with my ZL1 or wait for a C8 if I wanted to drive an automatic.

 

[Akamai58]

War?...I thought there was just a special operation going on...

...although maybe I should keep my trap shut Why Do Influential Russians Keep Mysteriously Dying? - The Debrief

Along with how busy we are due to the war I came into work on Saturday only to find one of the moisture chamber water lines broken and a flooded building. So, spent to whole weekend clearing out all of the water while still processing semiconductors for the military. N ever made it to check out the BW4. It was going for good price and probably sold over the weekend.

 

[Dubbed.theB]

According to the Cadillac website, there are at least 267 22MY 4BWs on-site or in transit still, with only 52 of those being manuals... So the ratio is heavily skewed towards the autos. I would definitely not go above MSRP on an auto.

Remaining 4BWs available

Also, of note, apparently most dealers think everyone wants sunroofs as most of the cars I saw had that provisioned and it's the one thing I just didn't want at all.

 

[raptor5244]

According to the Cadillac website, there are at least 267 22MY 4BWs on-site or in transit still, with only 52 of those being manuals... So the ratio is heavily skewed towards the autos. I would definitely not go above MSRP on an auto.

Remaining 4BWs available

Also, of note, apparently most dealers think everyone wants sunroofs as most of the cars I saw had that provisioned and it's the one thing I just didn't want at all.

Based on the production numbers post for 2022 this was the breakdown on the 4BWs. So, about 37% take rate on the manuals.

2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing:​

Automatic: 1,127
Manual: 664

 

[ClassaxV]

Based on the production numbers post for 2022 this was the breakdown on the 4BWs. So, about 37% take rate on the manuals.

2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing:​

Automatic: 1,127
Manual: 664

Can we really say that's the take rate, when it would appear the vast majority of automatics are turning out to be stock orders. Many of which are still available.

I know of at least one local dealer that didn't give their allocations to sold order customers, they built all stock order cars and of course wanted way over MSRP until last week, they have 4 automatics sitting on the lot right now. Been there about a month.

So the actual take rate on manuals I think is higher. However I think it will drop dramatically once all us enthusiasts finally get our vehicles.

 

[raptor5244]

Can we really say that's the take rate, when it would appear the vast majority of automatics are turning out to be stock orders. Many of which are still available.

I know of at least one local dealer that didn't give their allocations to sold order customers, the built all stock order cars and of course wanted way over MSRP until last week, they have 4 automatics sitting on the lot right now. Been there about a month.

So the actual take rate on manuals I think is higher. However I think it will drop dramatically once all us enthusiasts finally get our vehicles.

I think that is what was built but does not exactly represent customer demand. Like you said, you can always recognize a dealer stock order. It has like every freakin option added even if they items don't look good together.

I see the same thing with Miatas. Manuals are gone while autos sit on the lots. They think they know the right mix but I think they miscalculated the pent up demand for manual based sports sedans.

 

[ClassaxV]

They think they know the right mix but I think they miscalculated the pent up demand for manual based sports sedans.

Totally agree. It's hard not to consider the BW an enthusiast vehicle. CT5 V is probably the best bang for the buck option for someone looking for sporty sedan. People looking to take a car to the track for fun are more likely to want to row their own gears, once they start playing for money an automatic on track makes the most sense but cost too many dollars to run at 10 10ths.

Once the enthusiasts have gotten their wings, the automatics will start to sell.

 

[LV_V]

How can the enthusiasts even get their BW’s (5BW specifically) when the dealers want ADMs and their dealer stock orders are all shit option combos with zero manuals? I’d buy one today if I actually had a dealer willing to deal with me like a normal consumer who’s ready and willing to pay $115k for a 5BW.

 

[raptor5244]

Totally agree. It's hard not consider the the BW an enthusiast vehicle. CT5 V is probably the best bang for the buck option for someone looking for sporty sedan. People looking to take a car to the track for fun are more likely to want to row their own gears, once they start playing for money an automatic on track makes the most sense but cost too many dollars to run at 10 10ths.

Once the enthusiasts have gotten their wings, the automatics will start to sell.

Agreed. The manual in these cars is too good to pass up. If it didn't have the glorious Tremec-6060 then I would probably not have bought it. Similar situation for the Mustang. They use that garbage MT-82 6 speed in the GT and you have to spend for the GT350/Mach-1/Dark Horse trims to get the Tremec.

 

[raptor5244]

How can the enthusiasts even get their BW’s (5BW specifically) when the dealers want ADMs and their dealer stock orders are all shit option combos with zero manuals? I’d buy one today if I actually had a dealer willing to deal with me like a normal consumer who’s ready and willing to pay $115k for a 5BW.

Yeah, it sucks. All these greedy dealers do is damage the brand and upset customers. These dealers are supposed be an extension of GM and they don't seem to have any control over them.

GM should just set the pricing, let us build them to order online and then pick a dealer of our choice to ship to for delivery.

 

[Dubbed.theB]

That's basically what Dodge has been doing lately... GM should jump on board.

 

[Commonman]

Theirs a great dealer in Texas who will sell the car to you at MSRP. They also get a phenomenal % of the Blackwing's that are available to the citizens of the United States. Unfortunately if you don't live in TEXAS you will have to fight for the scrapes that are left over for the rest of the country.

 

[raptor5244]

Theirs a great dealer in Texas who will sell the car to you at MSRP. They also get a phenomenal % of the Blackwing's that are available to the citizens of the United States. Unfortunately if you don't live in TEXAS you will have to fight for the scrapes that are left over for the rest of the country.

Is that Sewell? I looked them up and they get tons of allocations.

Yeah, they probably sell at MSRP since they can do the volume while the smaller dealers want to rob someone by adding $20-$30k over.

 

[Commonman]

You are correct sir. I'm sure you would love the experience of buying from them but unfortunately you'll need to move to TEXAS to buy a 5BW.

 

[ClassaxV]

GM's allocation system sort of creates this monster, in that it rewards the dealers with higher sales volumes with more allocations for additional sales, which in turn qualifies them for more allocations. It really goes back to this whole cost basis model issue.

We used to have pricing models based on costs to value, now we have pricing models based on value to market. Whereas we used to price things as near costs as possible or if not possible to deliver a certain value to the market, NOW things get priced at the highest margins the markets will allow irrespective of cost or actual value. The dealers that stick close to or below MSRP understand the dynamics of volume sales, but if you're a small dealer in a market where you can't drive volume, then you have to make your margins on the items that people are willing to pay extra to have. I get that, but come on folks be reasonable. 30K ADM on a 70K car... Really?!?!?

 

[bloominguez]

According to the Cadillac website, there are at least 267 22MY 4BWs on-site or in transit still, with only 52 of those being manuals... So the ratio is heavily skewed towards the autos. I would definitely not go above MSRP on an auto.

Remaining 4BWs available

Also, of note, apparently most dealers think everyone wants sunroofs as most of the cars I saw had that provisioned and it's the one thing I just didn't want at all.

Sad to hear this, on one level. But also happy that a majority of cars are getting autos and sunroofs. Happy to not be part of the crowd, better to have a more rare car, I think.

Glad to have chosen a 5BW manual w/o sunroof w/CCB. Hopefully a discriminating buyer will appreciate these choices should I choose to sell in a decade or two. I'm not buying for luxury, I'm buying driving pleasure--with some luxury baked in I suppose. A sunroof and automatic do not fit that goal, for me anyway.

Agreed. The manual in these cars is too good to pass up. If it didn't have the glorious Tremec-6060 then I would probably not have bought it. Similar situation for the Mustang. They use that garbage MT-82 6 speed in the GT and you have to spend for the GT350/Mach-1/Dark Horse trims to get the Tremec.

Amen. The Tremec is *really good* and a huge reason to get a Blackwing. Completely agree about the Mustang. I've driven a GT and a Mach 1 back to back, the difference is stark. I'd never buy the MT-82. But a Mustang with the Tremec? Yeah, I'd buy it. I have a friend who's a Ford guy (father worked at Ford's). He used to own a Bullitt, had to sell it when he took a job out of the country for a few years. I told him he needed to get a special edition Mustang of some kind, with a Tremec, before this cycle is done, while he can.