ADM Additional Dealer Markup

[RupertH]

Hi All,
I had a heck of time with this. The dealer previously agreed to MSRP. After I got my reservation, they said they were going to do ADM at $20-30K. I had cancelled my reservation, but Cadillac Corporate advised while they could not tell the dealer what to set the price at, they would talk to them. They did talk to them and the dealer agreed to MSRP and Cadillac advised the reservation was still good since I had not got a refund yet.

So it's true that the dealer can set it for whatever they want, whenever they want before you commit... however, it seems that at least in one case Cadillac has some influence in ensuring their brand doesn't get ruined and lose customers due to dealers wanting to make more money off of limited edition cars. Also, I did confirm you can move the reservation to another dealer who is reasonable and worst case you can just cancel it and get your money back and go for the post 250 run.

Hope the info helps!
MC

I'd point out that while the manufacturer can't enforce pricing, they can enforce distribution... Cadillac in under no obligation to sell every model to every dealer, so there's a decent chance that Caddy told the dealer, "If you piss off our special 250 customers, your access to the following non-reservation allocation may be greatly curtailed."

 

[RDATLTE]

Hi All,
I had a heck of time with this. The dealer previously agreed to MSRP. After I got my reservation, they said they were going to do ADM at $20-30K. I had cancelled my reservation, but Cadillac Corporate advised while they could not tell the dealer what to set the price at, they would talk to them. They did talk to them and the dealer agreed to MSRP and Cadillac advised the reservation was still good since I had not got a refund yet.

So it's true that the dealer can set it for whatever they want, whenever they want before you commit... however, it seems that at least in one case Cadillac has some influence in ensuring their brand doesn't get ruined and lose customers due to dealers wanting to make more money off of limited edition cars. Also, I did confirm you can move the reservation to another dealer who is reasonable and worst case you can just cancel it and get your money back and go for the post 250 run.

Hope the info helps!
MC

WTF is wrong with these dealers? These are our reservations. These are not their allocations. We’re giving them a gift by selecting them with our reservation. By the way, I believe that the post 250 runs are going to be in much worse positions than we are due to the above reservation vs allocation.

 

[RDATLTE]

I'd point out that while the manufacturer can't enforce pricing, they can enforce distribution... Cadillac in under no obligation to sell every model to every dealer, so there's a decent chance that Caddy told the dealer, "If you piss off our special 250 customers, your access to the following non-reservation allocation may be greatly curtailed."

Unfortunately, that’s probably doubtful. Rob probably knows better than I however, I believe that allocations are based on previous sales. Dealers earn allocations.

 

[RDATLTE]

unfortunately, i believe its called capitalism.

In my case, my original dealer lost a sale that I gave to them as a gift. Sometimes, capitalism backfires.

 

[RupertH]

Does anyone know if there will be a retail-sold type order window prior to allocations? Or will it all be based on allocations? This will certainly drive some significant ADM overreach.

i.e., will I be able to order a car from the dealer or direct from Cadillac separate from their allocation? Or will they have to agree to let me spec an allocation in order to get what I want?

Between years of looking at what dealers have to offer on site plus watching the Chevy SS process play out recently, I've made a critical discovery: Inventory Managers are morons, who don't know how to option performance-oriented cars. There's usually a food fight for the handful of (likely accidentally) properly optioned ones, followed by a period of watching the crappy ones languish while waiting for discounts or someone to lower their standards.

 

[Rob]

Unfortunately, that’s probably doubtful. Rob probably knows better than I however, I believe that allocations are based on previous sales. Dealers earn allocations.

That's correct. Allocation is based upon previous sales.

For example: the 2019 Corvette ZR1. Allocation for the ZR1 was based upon a Chevrolet dealer's previous year's Corvette Z06 sales numbers. The more Z06 Corvettes you sold in 2018 - the more 2019 ZR1 allocation you got. This differs by brand and model. GM is the one that determines the factors that determines how much allocation a GM dealer will receive for a given model.

I'm not sure how the reservation/allocation system is set up for Cadillac, but I can find that out tomorrow.

In response to some of the other comments in this thread, yes, most automotive dealerships are private entities. That can pretty much do what they want within a loose set of GM guidelines.

A dealership buys product from the the manufacturer - in this case GM. Depending on the product be it Chevrolet or Cadillac, GM has a set of guidelines that the dealership must abide by - such as physical layout, inventory display restrictions, paint and floor colors used within the facility, how a vehicle is marketed and priced on a website - etc.

However, because a dealership buys the product - technically they own the product...unless they have a floor plan.

If they have a floor plan - that means that they basically apply to a third party lender in order to pay for the product. That 3rd party vendor is like a bank or mortgage company. So that lender lends you the money to pay the manufacturer for the product - the lender holds the title to the vehicles until the vehicle is sold. During that time, the dealership pays interest to the lender on the money they borrowed to buy the product.

However, some dealers have deep pockets and do not follow a "floor plan". They buy the product from GM and pay for it out of their own wallet without having to borrow money from a lender.

In either situation - the dealership basically owns the product and can sell it to the customer for whatever they want. If a dealership wants to charge a "Market Adjustment Fee" - unfortunately, that's totally up to them.

My suggestion to you is get EVERYTHING in writing from the dealer. Get a P&S agreement showing the numbers - the MSRP, any additional add-ons you want such as XPEL clear film protection if they offer it, any trade-ins you may be selling to them, etc. Make sure you get the General Sales Manager to sign the P&S.

While this isn't 100% fool proof in a court of law, it's a hell of a lot better than an old-fashioned agreed-upon hand-shake and verbal acknowledgement. If you have something in writing and signed, you have more of a leg to stand on with the dealership than you do with just plunking down a deposit and them handing you a receipt for your deposit and a verbal agreement that they'll sell that 2022 Cadillac to you for MSRP.

Make sure you read the fine print on the P&S before selling it - if it says anything about the dealer holding the right to adjust the final sale price at the time of delivery - have them write on the P&S, that they agree to sell the vehicle at MSRP with NO market adjustment fees, or vin-etching fees or tail-pipe polishing fees or any of the other dumb-ass fees some dealers try to sneak in on the deal.

Oh and that comment about dealerships are in cahoots...that's bullshit. Automotive dealerships are cut-throat - it's not often I hear of dealerships working together to drive up the price of a car. Most of them will slit the throats of competing dealerships and kick them to the gutter just to sell a car before they'll agree to "work together"

There's always exceptions to the general standards above, but for the most part - that's kind of car sales 101 in a nutshell. LOL

 

[ajamils]

Spoke with my dealer again as I am planning to order tomorrow. He confirmed that there is no additional markup but they would include "essential package" for $1500 which will include the following

- Window Tint
- Hand Painted Pinstripe
- Nitrogen Filled Tires
- Door Edge Guards
- Door Handle Cups

Tints I want but not sure about the other stuff. Definitely does not sound like $1500 worth.

 

[jwolf99]

Spoke with my dealer again as I am planning to order tomorrow. He confirmed that there is no additional markup but they would include "essential package" for $1500 which will include the following

- Window Tint
- Hand Painted Pinstripe
- Nitrogen Filled Tires
- Door Edge Guards
- Door Handle Cups

Tints I want but not sure about the other stuff. Definitely does not sound like $1500 worth.

Ask them them to throw in some muffler bearings and an extra container of blinker fluid, and you've got a deal!

 

[Rob]

Spoke with my dealer again as I am planning to order tomorrow. He confirmed that there is no additional markup but they would include "essential package" for $1500 which will include the following

- Window Tint
- Hand Painted Pinstripe
- Nitrogen Filled Tires
- Door Edge Guards
- Door Handle Cups

Tints I want but not sure about the other stuff. Definitely does not sound like $1500 worth.

Please do not do that...

 

[ajamils]

Please do not do that...

Definitely not planning to do that but that does make me concern that the ordering process is not gonna go as smooth as I had hoped because up till now he was just talking about selling at MSRP but when I asked today he told me that this "essential package" is included with all new cars.

On the plus side, since the car is not on the lot, they cannot claim that they already did the work so they will have to charge for it (like Honda stealer did when we bought Odyssey few years back)

 

[Rob]

Ask them them to throw in some muffler bearings and an extra container of blinker fluid, and you've got a deal!

You forgot the headlight fluid!

 

[Rob]

Definitely not planning to do that but that does make me concern that the ordering process is not gonna go as smooth as I had hoped because up till now he was just talking about selling at MSRP but when I asked today he told me that this "essential package" is included with all new cars.

On the plus side, since the car is not on the lot, they cannot claim that they already did the work so they will have to charge for it (like Honda stealer did when we bought Odyssey few years back)

So...I'm not laughing at you, but I'm laughing at the marketing your dealer is doing and the "included with all new cars."

They call it "essential package". Window tint is not essential, pin-striping is not essential and so-1980s, nitrogen filled tires - not essential, door edge guards and door handle cups - not essential. And all that for $1,500!?

And the word "included". No it's not included. You're paying for it - at least based on the wording of your post, it sounds like they're going to make you pay it on top of the MSRP.

So basically, they want to bend you over your new Cadillac and rape another $1,500 out of you on top of what they're making off the sale of the car. While that may sound harsh, that's basically what they want to do.

It's just like "Vin-etching". I've seen some dealers tell customers, "so here's your MSRP, here's the cost of the Vin Etching and here's your final price. What's vin-etching? Oh that's REQUIRED on all new cars we sell."

Unless there's a law in some state in this country that I'm not aware of - vin-etching is NOT "required". It's just another dealer tactic of sucking more money out of your wallet.

Now, I'm not anti-dealer and I understand the whole concept of capitalism. However, there are good dealers out there who don't pull pathetic sales tactics like that, and then they're a dealer-whores out there that will do every thing they can to try to suck blood out of stone.

Be careful and get everything in writing. If you have to shop around to find a reputable dealer and you won't make the first 500 reservations, then just place an order with a good dealer that will treat you right.

Will you have to wait longer for the car - yeah, but at least you're not wasting money and paying for something that really is of no use to you. Pin striping, door edge guards, door handle cups (that kills me - I've never even heard of them ) are completely useless and tacky. And in most situations, nitrogen filled tires, vin-etching and window tinting are useless too.

 

[RupertH]

So...I'm not laughing at you, but I'm laughing at the marketing your dealer is doing and the "included with all new cars."

They call it "essential package". Window tint is not essential, pin-striping is not essential and so-1980s, nitrogen filled tires - not essential, door edge guards and door handle cups - not essential. And all that for $1,500!?

And the word "included". No it's not included. You're paying for it - at least based on the wording of your post, it sounds like they're going to make you pay it on top of the MSRP.

So basically, they want to bend you over your new Cadillac and rape another $1,500 out of you on top of what they're making off the sale of the car. While that may sound harsh, that's basically what they want to do.

It's just like "Vin-etching". I've seen some dealers tell customers, "so here's your MSRP, here's the cost of the Vin Etching and here's your final price. What's vin-etching? Oh that's REQUIRED on all new cars we sell."

Unless there's a law in some state in this country that I'm not aware of - vin-etching is NOT "required". It's just another dealer tactic of sucking more money out of your wallet.

Now, I'm not anti-dealer and I understand the whole concept of capitalism. However, there are good dealers out there who don't pull pathetic sales tactics like that, and then they're a dealer-whores out there that will do every thing they can to try to suck blood out of stone.

Be careful and get everything in writing. If you have to shop around to find a reputable dealer and you won't make the first 500 reservations, then just place an order with a good dealer that will treat you right.

Will you have to wait longer for the car - yeah, but at least you're not wasting money and paying for something that really is of no use to you. Pin striping, door edge guards, door handle cups (that kills me - I've never even heard of them ) are completely useless and tacky. And in most situations, nitrogen filled tires, vin-etching and window tinting are useless too.

I've always loved the nitro tires- what a great scam!

On a related note, anyone have any experience with either of the 2 Vegas dealers? Wondering if I should take a trip up the street to southern Utah... Just to hedge my bets.

 

[RDATLTE]

Spoke with my dealer again as I am planning to order tomorrow. He confirmed that there is no additional markup but they would include "essential package" for $1500 which will include the following

- Window Tint
- Hand Painted Pinstripe
- Nitrogen Filled Tires
- Door Edge Guards
- Door Handle Cups

Tints I want but not sure about the other stuff. Definitely does not sound like $1500 worth.

Well, those are all essential...

 

[RDATLTE]

I've always loved the nitro tires- what a great scam!

On a related note, anyone have any experience with either of the 2 Vegas dealers? Wondering if I should take a trip up the street to southern Utah... Just to hedge my bets.

I love those green valve stem caps that go with the nitrogen fills.

 

[ajamils]

So in the current situation, what's the best course of action? If I place and order and then negotiate about the "essential stuff", I'll be already screwed because I cannot take my reservation to the dealer. If I start talking about final price without the picking everything in the order form, then it might not make any sense.
Either way, this is my first time ordering a car so I'm excited as well as concern. My previous two cars (both Chevy SS sedans) I bought from out of state sight unseen but had a pretty good idea what I was getting into and both times it was a firm price (without any B$).

 

[RDATLTE]

So in the current situation, what's the best course of action? If I place and order and then negotiate about the "essential stuff", I'll be already screwed because I cannot take my reservation to the dealer. If I start talking about final price without the picking everything in the order form, then it might not make any sense.
Either way, this is my first time ordering a car so I'm excited as well as concern. My previous two cars (both Chevy SS sedans) I bought from out of state sight unseen but had a pretty good idea what I was getting into and both times it was a firm price (without any B$).

It absolutely makes sense to talk about price prior to even placing the order. Not necessarily specific price but, pricing in general, no more than MSRP, no "essential packages" or bogus fees. MSRP plus tax and license. Once you place the order, they got you.

 

[ajamils]

Placed the order. It was a lot smoother than expected. No hassle for anything extra in fact salesperson agreed that they do not do "essential package" on sport models (saw three CT4 and CT5-V on the floor that did not have the stripes or any other crap). Got a print out showing the MSRP and confirmation that that's what I will be paying.
He did ask me if I wanted a ceramic package ($1995) but said that we can discuss that at delivery so that wasn't added to the quote.
Overall, very positive experience. Hopefully that's the case at delivery as well

 

[RupertH]

Placed the order. It was a lot smoother than expected. No hassle for anything extra in fact salesperson agreed that they do not do "essential package" on sport models (saw three CT4 and CT5-V on the floor that did not have the stripes or any other crap). Got a print out showing the MSRP and confirmation that that's what I will be paying.
He did ask me if I wanted a ceramic package ($1995) but said that we can discuss that at delivery so that wasn't added to the quote.
Overall, very positive experience. Hopefully that's the case at delivery as well

Not looking to dog anyone (unless the experience was exceptionally egregious... maybe) so not suggesting negative postings, but I'll throw out there that if you've had a positive experience, it might not hurt to name them.

If any of them are listening in, that'd let them know that when round 2 starts, those of us waiting for it might gravitate toward those dealers that treat customers right.

Also, I don't know if they're floating around here, but on some other sites I've seen GM Customer Care hanging out to be a bit proactive for these smaller, enthusiast groups. Perhaps the admins could invite Cadillac to engage when things start going sideways.

 

[Nino313]

Going to place my order tomorrow morning. Dealer has said that it'll be MSRP or I can use my GMS if GM allows. Let's see if they hold to that