300 new manual blackwings on dealer lots

[M2Cto4BW]

South Florida area. Cars.com shows 758 4BWs nationwide now.

This one dealer used to have one or two in stock, now they have ~17 in stock and many are advertised at $2k off, which means there is probably more room for negotiation. It was just a matter of time with improving supply and high interest rates.

View attachment 17828

Eesh, they spec'd them too high to begin with getting into the mid 70s for something that will sit on the forecourt. They'll likely end up going for a price with a 6 at the start of it, when it's all said and done.

ETA: Admittedly I am thinking '22MY prices, I don't remember what increases happened for '23.

 

[NewCaddy]

What are you sayin, you would buy another one?

 

[M2Cto4BW]

What are you sayin, you would buy another one?

Me? No no. Just that optioning out dealer stock 4BWs at 75k+ takes away one of its key USPs vs other options, which is its relative "bang for the buck".

 

[Jpjr]

Once again GM pigged out and overbuilt a car meant to be exclusive. They are definitely stacking up on dealer lots.

 

[jwolf99]

Once again GM pigged out and overbuilt a car meant to be exclusive. They are definitely stacking up on dealer lots.

Not sure that's GM's fault. Pretty sure they only build cars that the dealers order. Though @Rob might have insight on the any "incentives" that GM might have which puts pressure or even requirements on dealers to order these cars?

 

[LF4472]

Eesh, they spec'd them too high to begin with getting into the mid 70s for something that will sit on the forecourt. They'll likely end up going for a price with a 6 at the start of it, when it's all said and done.

ETA: Admittedly I am thinking '22MY prices, I don't remember what increases happened for '23.

Destination increased $400 during 22 and MSRP increased $1500 for 23. Carbon packages prices also increased several thousand dollars.

 

[RDATLTE]

Not sure that's GM's fault. Pretty sure they only build cars that the dealers order. Though @Rob might have insight on the any "incentives" that GM might have which puts pressure or even requirements on dealers to order these cars?

Don't they control the process via allocations? There is definately a history with GM in this regard. I can site the 5th Gen Z/28 and the 6th Gen ZL1 1LE as recent examples.

 

[RobC7]

Once again GM pigged out and overbuilt a car meant to be exclusive. They are definitely stacking up on dealer lots.

I'll chalk this up to as the dealers fault. There are plenty of people wanting a BW but could not get an allocation or a MSRP price.

 

[Barstoolman1127]

Interest rates aren’t helping moving these vehicles either. I purchased mine in December 2021, when interest rates for long-term financing were in the low 2% area.

 

[raptor5244]

Eesh, they spec'd them too high to begin with getting into the mid 70s for something that will sit on the forecourt. They'll likely end up going for a price with a 6 at the start of it, when it's all said and done.

ETA: Admittedly I am thinking '22MY prices, I don't remember what increases happened for '23.

Agreed. I notice that the dealers that order 4BWs in the low to mid $60s seem to sell pretty quick. Low option, base seats, some of them don't even have the performance steering wheel, which I didn't even know what that looked like, but they sell quick. Also, 4BW with manual transmissions seem to go quick as well.

Just about all the cars sitting on the lots are automatics with lots of options most of these buyers will never use.

 

[raptor5244]

Me? No no. Just that optioning out dealer stock 4BWs at 75k+ takes away one of its key USPs vs other options, which is its relative "bang for the buck".

Yep, I don't think you are grabbing any of the BWM and Audi customers at those prices. I see the 4BW as the more practical 4 door Camaro. I would like to see it actually start around $50k and option fully out to about $65k. I mean this is just silly IMO. This Track Edition in Florida after 7% tax and $1,500 in dealer fees is around $97k. You have to really, really, really, really love a 4BW.

 

[RDATLTE]

Yep, I don't think you are grabbing any of the BWM and Audi customers at those prices. I see the 4BW as the more practical 4 door Camaro. I would like to see it actually start around $50k and option fully out to about $65k. I mean this is just silly IMO. This Track Edition in Florida after 7% tax and $1,500 in dealer fees is around $97k. You have to really, really, really, really love a 4BW.

View attachment 17839

Did they leave any box unchecked?

 

[Berserker]

I got my first oil change at Sewell-Houston this morning, and was surprised to find three new 4BWs on the lot. All with manuals.

I waited 8 months for my car. Now 3 months after I picked it up they have multiple cars on the lot that someone could just drive off with today.

One was a Watkins Glen Edition. I think it was hideous, but was still surprised that one is just sitting on a dealer's lot at "MSRP". ("MSRSP" in quotes because Sewell adds a package of dealer options to all their vehicles in stock.)

 

[raptor5244]

Did they leave any box unchecked?

That particular car is one of those track editions but I see builds like this as well. They get up there quick, $79k and no carbon goodies or track pack stickers.

 

[Finally-a-V]

$79,000 list and NO carbon. Is the $1295 bronze package really worth it?

 

[raptor5244]

$79,000 list and NO carbon. Is the $1295 bronze package really worth it?

I mean, not to me, but I am more of a price/performance type of buyer. For others with more disposable income they may not care about all the nickel and diming options.

I mean look at the options list on that window sticker.

- $2,275 to "add" an automatic transmission on a $60k car seems excessive, and then dealers always add the $900 adaptive cruise control feature so you are plus $3,175 right out of the gate if want an automatic. The same 10-speed in the Camaro is $1,595.

- Does the $1,295 bronze package really consist of some center caps and bronze decals? C'mon.

- The upgraded seats are $4,900 but then they still hit you for $600 more to add the ventilated option and a lumbar massage. I mean, seems excessive, considering you should get a better credit for the base seats that share some of the frame parts, motors, electronics, etc., just make it $5500 and include it then.

- You would think they would just include the HUD in a performance sedan such as this but nope, $725 and now you get an air ionizer as well.

- $1,500 up charge for the bronze wheels is silly as well. The construction of the wheels are no different than the satin ($600) or standard polished wheels ($0). In fact, if you look online at the part # for the bronze wheel it is actually a few bucks cheaper than the standard and satin wheels. It is just a money grab.

- $1,600 PDR. It is a nice feature if you want a factory dash cam but how many buyers actually hit the track? I get this feature included from the 9 cameras on my Tesla Model 3 on a car that costs under $40k and it also can record the video while in Sentry Mode and I can view it remotely from my phone while away from the car.

As you can probably tell I am new to Cadillac so I am still getting used to the "luxury tax" and find myself comparing this car to other "fun" performance cars that offer more for the money. For example, on the Chevy lot a Camaro SS 1LE (RIP) for $45k-$50k is hard to beat and it includes Recaro heated/cooled seats, HUD, E-diff, 20" forged wheels, 6-piston Brembos with red calipers, LT1 V8 mated to a Tremec 6-speed manual and dual mode exhaust. I would think they could offer a 4 door version of the Camaro for similar money since it is built in the same plant as the Camaro.

Now I know you don't have to buy a 4BW with all these options. My car is a base model with just the performance steering wheel, (which by the way is another ding for $500 on a performance car where it should come standard), red calipers and red seat belts, which kept the price at $61,385 but from what I can tell it is hard to find cars like this with only a few options. They are typically loaded up by dealers and if you order one then it seems to take forever since they want to focus on selling dealer stock first. $60-$65k is about as much as I could justify for this for the 4BW. My ZL1 with the LT4, 10-speed auto and Recaros was $67k.

 

[savethemanual]

I mean, not to me, but I am more of a price/performance type of buyer. For others with more disposable income they may not care about all the nickel and diming options.

I mean look at the options list on that window sticker.

- $2,275 to "add" an automatic transmission on a $60k car seems excessive, and then dealers always add the $900 adaptive cruise control feature so you are plus $3,175 right out of the gate if want an automatic. The same 10-speed in the Camaro is $1,595.

- Does the $1,295 bronze package really consist of some center caps and bronze decals? C'mon.

- The upgraded seats are $4,900 but then they still hit you for $600 more to add the ventilated option and a lumbar massage. I mean, seems excessive, considering you should get a better credit for the base seats that share some of the frame parts, motors, electronics, etc., just make it $5500 and include it then.

- You would think they would just include the HUD in a performance sedan such as this but nope, $725 and now you get an air ionizer as well.

- $1,500 up charge for the bronze wheels is silly as well. The construction of the wheels are no different than the satin ($600) or standard polished wheels ($0). In fact, if you look online at the part # for the bronze wheel it is actually a few bucks cheaper than the standard and satin wheels. It is just a money grab.

- $1,600 PDR. It is a nice feature if you want a factory dash cam but how many buyers actually hit the track? I get this feature included from the 9 cameras on my Tesla Model 3 on a car that costs under $40k and it also can record the video while in Sentry Mode and I can view it remotely from my phone while away from the car.

As you can probably tell I am new to Cadillac so I am still getting used to the "luxury tax" and find myself comparing this car to other "fun" performance cars that offer more for the money. For example, on the Chevy lot a Camaro SS 1LE (RIP) for $45k-$50k is hard to beat and it includes Recaro heated/cooled seats, HUD, E-diff, 20" forged wheels, 6-piston Brembos with red calipers, LT1 V8 mated to a Tremec 6-speed manual and dual mode exhaust. I would think they could offer a 4 door version of the Camaro for similar money since it is built in the same plant as the Camaro.

Now I know you don't have to buy a 4BW with all these options. My car is a base model with just the performance steering wheel, (which by the way is another ding for $500 on a performance car where it should come standard), red calipers and red seat belts, which kept the price at $61,385 but from what I can tell it is hard to find cars like this with only a few options. They are typically loaded up by dealers and if you order one then it seems to take forever since they want to focus on selling dealer stock first. $60-$65k is about as much as I could justify for this for the 4BW. My ZL1 with the LT4, 10-speed auto and Recaros was $67k.

I am with you.
I think the 4BW is absolutely terrific value in the 60s. At 70's the M3 becomes mighty attractive. Mine was the base one with the mid tier upgraded seats- That got me the high performance steering wheel too.

If I had to splurge I would have gotten the full premium tan seats, blue brake calipers and non base wheels. That's still in the 60s.

 

[Deneed4spd]

I wonder if there was a big push to her 2023 out of the pen in Feb. There was a lot of CT5 BWs a month ago but seems like they are starting to disappear again. Several around me have started disappearing again.

 

[raptor5244]

I am with you.
I think the 4BW is absolutely terrific value in the 60s. At 70's the M3 becomes mighty attractive. Mine was the base one with the mid tier upgraded seats- That got me the high performance steering wheel too.

If I had to splurge I would have gotten the full premium tan seats, blue brake calipers and non base wheels. That's still in the 60s.

Yep, my actual order that I placed 7 months ago is Argent Silver, mid-tier seats, satin wheels and red calipers. It put it right around $66k. In the mean-time I found one that will do in Black Raven. TBH, all I really care about is whether all the performance hardware goodies are in the base car and the manual transmission to keep me engaged, everything else is just icing to me.

Anyway, the allocation still hasn't been filled but the dealer has a bunch in stock. I assume GM just builds these cars the way they want and ships them to the dealers ignoring the ordered cars? It really doesn't matter at this point since I would never take the financial hit to swap to my preferred color. 2023 MSRP price increase, destination charge price increase, dealer fees, higher interest rates, etc. I don't keep cars very long, maybe 2 years or so and then I get bored and want to try something new. I may want to hear the rumble of a V8 again in the future so I may look at the new Mustang Dark Horse. Now that the end of production for the Camaro has been announced for January 2024, we get to wait and see what kind of performance EV GM has up their sleeve. Interesting times.

 

[Tall Steve]

I mean, not to me, but I am more of a price/performance type of buyer. For others with more disposable income they may not care about all the nickel and diming options.

I mean look at the options list on that window sticker.

- $2,275 to "add" an automatic transmission on a $60k car seems excessive, and then dealers always add the $900 adaptive cruise control feature so you are plus $3,175 right out of the gate if want an automatic. The same 10-speed in the Camaro is $1,595.

- Does the $1,295 bronze package really consist of some center caps and bronze decals? C'mon.

- The upgraded seats are $4,900 but then they still hit you for $600 more to add the ventilated option and a lumbar massage. I mean, seems excessive, considering you should get a better credit for the base seats that share some of the frame parts, motors, electronics, etc., just make it $5500 and include it then.

- You would think they would just include the HUD in a performance sedan such as this but nope, $725 and now you get an air ionizer as well.

- $1,500 up charge for the bronze wheels is silly as well. The construction of the wheels are no different than the satin ($600) or standard polished wheels ($0). In fact, if you look online at the part # for the bronze wheel it is actually a few bucks cheaper than the standard and satin wheels. It is just a money grab.

- $1,600 PDR. It is a nice feature if you want a factory dash cam but how many buyers actually hit the track? I get this feature included from the 9 cameras on my Tesla Model 3 on a car that costs under $40k and it also can record the video while in Sentry Mode and I can view it remotely from my phone while away from the car.

As you can probably tell I am new to Cadillac so I am still getting used to the "luxury tax" and find myself comparing this car to other "fun" performance cars that offer more for the money. For example, on the Chevy lot a Camaro SS 1LE (RIP) for $45k-$50k is hard to beat and it includes Recaro heated/cooled seats, HUD, E-diff, 20" forged wheels, 6-piston Brembos with red calipers, LT1 V8 mated to a Tremec 6-speed manual and dual mode exhaust. I would think they could offer a 4 door version of the Camaro for similar money since it is built in the same plant as the Camaro.

Now I know you don't have to buy a 4BW with all these options. My car is a base model with just the performance steering wheel, (which by the way is another ding for $500 on a performance car where it should come standard), red calipers and red seat belts, which kept the price at $61,385 but from what I can tell it is hard to find cars like this with only a few options. They are typically loaded up by dealers and if you order one then it seems to take forever since they want to focus on selling dealer stock first. $60-$65k is about as much as I could justify for this for the 4BW. My ZL1 with the LT4, 10-speed auto and Recaros was $67k.

Please don't look at my window sticker......