Traction on 2023 CT4 Blackwing

[Jim2000]

I had 2 ATS-Vs and I lost traction quite a bit as I accelerated as compared to my CT4 Blackwing. The Blackwing doesn't slip nearly as much. I used the same tire on both cars and the same sizes. Michelin 4s. I assume the differentials are different. I know the transmissions are different, 8 speed versus a 10 speed. The Blackwing transmission is much smoother and I certainly don't miss the rough 1st gear to 2nd gear shift in the ATS-V. The Blackwing is the better of the two cars.

 

[Beamz27]

The 4BW is heavier. My ATS V was much quicker feeling and definitely more squirrely. The 4BW needs a few more ponies to offset the weight gain

 

[Grainofsand]

How much heavier is the 4BW than the ATS-V? You're probably looking at gearing too

 

[Jim2000]

How much heavier is the 4BW than the ATS-V? You're probably looking at gearing too

The ATS-V is about 3,812 pounds and the Blackwing is 3860. Unlike BMW, Cadillac has not made the car more bloated.

 

[PL69]

Don't forget the weight measurement standards have changed in recent years, this is why a 2016 GT4 is rated around 3050lbs and a 2020 around 3250 altrough if you weight them they are pretty close in the 3200 range.

Without actually weighting them both on the same scale, saying the weight does this or that is pretty moot.

 

[poor-sha]

I have a set of scales at home and my friend has both a 4BW (3859 lbs) and a 718 GT4 (3190 lbs). Both were full fuel load.

The 48 lbs difference quoted above for the ATS-V to 4BW is the equivalent of 8 lbs of gas so I doubt that’s the reason, it’s more likely the better bespoke PS4S on the 4BW and improvements in MR programming and hardware

 

[Jim2000]

Don't forget the weight measurement standards have changed in recent years, this is why a 2016 GT4 is rated around 3050lbs and a 2020 around 3250 altrough if you weight them they are pretty close in the 3200 range.

Without actually weighting them both on the same scale, saying the weight does this or that is pretty moot.

Weight measurement standards have changed? A pound is a pound. Perhaps the standards called for measuring the car almost empty on gas as compared to being full of gas?

 

[PL69]

Weight measurement standards have changed? A pound is a pound. Perhaps the standards called for measuring the car almost empty on gas as compared to being full of gas?

Pretty much, I don't have the details but I am sure you know what I meant.

Handling differences between two cars can be major with just small changes and I discovered with time that weight does have an effect but It's not as much as ppl tend think. The new M2 with 200lbs more than the old one doesn't make it a turd at all.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

I had 2 ATS-Vs and I lost traction quite a bit as I accelerated as compared to my CT4 Blackwing. The Blackwing doesn't slip nearly as much. I used the same tire on both cars and the same sizes. Michelin 4s. I assume the differentials are different. I know the transmissions are different, 8 speed versus a 10 speed. The Blackwing transmission is much smoother and I certainly don't miss the rough 1st gear to 2nd gear shift in the ATS-V. The Blackwing is the better of the two cars.

the tires actually aren't the same. The TPC Spec Pilot 4S on the Blackwing uses a different rubber compound than the regular 4S.

 

[Jim2000]

the tires actually aren't the same. The TPC Spec Pilot 4S on the Blackwing uses a different rubber compound than the regular 4S.

Unless you are on the track taking this car to its limits, I doubt if anyone can notice the difference. Based on my assertive driving and enjoying the car, I find my Blackwing accelerates, steers, and handles just as well as my ATS-V. The difference is that the Blackwing is less twitchy and more refined. Could that possibly be due to comparing a used car to a new one? It's also interesting that the ATS-V was zero to sixty in 3.8 seconds and the Blackwing is 4.0 seconds. The ATS-V had a lateral acceleration of .98-1.03 while the Blackwing has a lateral acceleration between 1.01-1.05 depending on which review you read. Both of these cars are the best cars I have ever owned and I think a lot of people are missing out by not buying these cars which would increase supply.

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

The 4BW is heavier. My ATS V was much quicker feeling and definitely more squirrely. The 4BW needs a few more ponies to offset the weight gain

Pretty sure it's what, 100lbs heavier? 100lbs is worth about 10hp. My wagon. Feels so much faster right now because it's borderline dangerous at putting down power lol.

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

Unless you are on the track taking this car to its limits, I doubt if anyone can notice the difference. Based on my assertive driving and enjoying the car, I find my Blackwing accelerates, steers, and handles just as well as my ATS-V. The difference is that the Blackwing is less twitchy and more refined. Could that possibly be due to comparing a used car to a new one? It's also interesting that the ATS-V was zero to sixty in 3.8 seconds and the Blackwing is 4.0 seconds. The ATS-V had a lateral acceleration of .98-1.03 while the Blackwing has a lateral acceleration between 1.01-1.05 depending on which review you read. Both of these cars are the best cars I have ever owned and I think a lot of people are missing out by not buying these cars which would increase supply.

Compare 0-60 of auto to auto and manual to manual and you won't find the same spread of 3.8 vs 4.0

 

[Beamz27]

Pretty sure it's what, 100lbs heavier? 100lbs is worth about 10hp. My wagon. Feels so much faster right now because it's borderline dangerous at putting down power lol.

My ATS V dyno’d at 444hp to the wheels and it was a Caddy certified model w 3k miles. So I got a unicorn car or it was tuned and caddy didn’t know . Either way it was much quicker than my current 4BW. It pulled like no tomorrow lol

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

My ATS V dyno’d at 444hp to the wheels and it was a Caddy certified model w 3k miles. So I got a unicorn car or it was tuned and caddy didn’t know . Either way it was much quicker than my current 4BW. It pulled like no tomorrow lol

And you've yet to Dyno your BlackWing. We've had this conversation before lol.

 

[Beamz27]

And you've yet to Dyno your BlackWing. We've had this conversation before lol.

Hahahaha not yet. I used to live across the street from the speed shop back then. It was convenient and now it’s not

 

[jbawden]

Could it also be Alpha vs Alpha II that is having an effect?

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Unless you are on the track taking this car to its limits, I doubt if anyone can notice the difference. Based on my assertive driving and enjoying the car, I find my Blackwing accelerates, steers, and handles just as well as my ATS-V.

Huh? Your post said that your two ATS-Vs "lost traction quite a bit" when accelerating compared to your Blackwing. They wear different tires, with the Blackwing's being stickier, so that absolutely could be the cause, or part of it.

 

[Grainofsand]

Could it also be Alpha vs Alpha II that is having an effect?

probably some of that Magnaride 4.0 at play here too

 

[ClassaxV]

I had 2 ATS-Vs and I lost traction quite a bit as I accelerated as compared to my CT4 Blackwing. The Blackwing doesn't slip nearly as much. I used the same tire on both cars and the same sizes. Michelin 4s. I assume the differentials are different. I know the transmissions are different, 8 speed versus a 10 speed. The Blackwing transmission is much smoother and I certainly don't miss the rough 1st gear to 2nd gear shift in the ATS-V. The Blackwing is the better of the two cars.

I would argue the Blackwings should NOT lose grip nearly as easily as the ATS-Vs, despite the fact that nationally they have more power for the following reasons:

1) The OEM spec 4S are demonstrably stickier at all but cooler temperatures.

2)Improved weight distribution of the Alpha II Chassis.

3) Improved rigidity of the Alpha II

4) Improved speed and programing of magnaride suspension.

5) Improved PTM and rear diff programing.

That being said as everyone who has been to Spring Mountain or AutoX'd a CT4BW it is more than happily overwhelm the 275 rears, so much so that managing the rear grip becomes a mini game in itself, and yet on a flowing road course it absolutely rails!

Just my .02!

 

[MookdocOE]

Don't forget the weight measurement standards have changed in recent years, this is why a 2016 GT4 is rated around 3050lbs and a 2020 around 3250 altrough if you weight them they are pretty close in the 3200 range.

Without actually weighting them both on the same scale, saying the weight does this or that is pretty moot.

It's all pretty moot because I could put lead weights on two identical cars 200lbs difference and you wouldn't have a clue?