Welcome to the Cadillac V-Series Forums!

GM cancelling warranty on z06, hummer, Escalade-V if flipped

jumpmanjay

Seasoned Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
293
Location
Midwest
Not sure I follow on why more restrictive measures are less bothersome to you. You could just keep your car for a year or not buy at all if your plan is to flip. I don’t think the manufacturer exists to make money for people interested in flipping cars. They are trying to build brand relationships.
I've laid out how this ultimately negatively affects the end user who actually wants to own the car. If you disagree with that logic, that is one thing, but that's the logic I am running with. So given that logic, do you think that's a wise end result for a car company that is trying to build brand relationships? The more restrictive measures are less bothersome because the logic actually follows that the party that is negatively affected is the flipper. The dealership doesn't sell above MSRP, so they don't get to take advantage, and the flipper cannot flip.

To put this in real terms, I purchased my 5BW on Cars and Bids. I placed an order with the dealership (for MSRP) in Oct 2021 my position in the queue has not changed since then. I found a car with [roughly] the same spec up for auction and jumped on it. I paid above MSRP because I wanted the car now, and am still not sure my dealership order will ever pan out. So in a world where the OP stipulations existed for my car, I would have gotten screwed out of a warranty, just for wanting the car and paying for it. This is VERY poor brand building.
 

malakas

Seasoned Member
Joined
May 18, 2022
Messages
126
Location
California
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
Former CTS-V Wagon owner, aspiring CT5V Blackwing Owner
You can't compare a volume manufacturer like GM to an exotics manufacturer like Ferrari.

The only thing that overlaps is the principle that it's either a market free for all or it's a managed environment.

Ferrari dealers HAVE to sell at MSRP (as did Ford dealers with the GT) no matter what the market value of the car is, and sometimes it's hundreds of thousands over what the customer pays for it, on the rare occasion millions. So if they don't let the dealers take advantage of the open market it's only fair that the customer can't either in the short term. But if like GM you're going to let dealers go to the open market value through their ADMs then don't come to your customers and punish them for doing the same thing.

Not to mention that GM has the arrogant presumption that they can predict the economy twelve months down the line. Aside from everything else, what happens if the market really crashes and we go into a recession? We're teetering 50/50 on that. So what? All the people that have to get out of their cars at way below what they paid for them also have to eat the discount because they can't transfer their warranty?

It's the most ill conceived idea ever. Most solutions have unforeseen and unwanted consequences ... here anyone can foresee them a mile away. The real world 'flipper' problem, as in people who specifically buy cars just to turn around and sell them is incredibly small, it doesn't run any way warrant taking out all the other customers this will affect. If the problem were significant GM would provide data to back their policy up. That's why it's clear to me that this is being done as a money grab with flippers as an excuse.
Explain how paying every zo6 owner 5k for holding their cars for a year is a money grab? Seriously, I get that this upsets you but if your plan was to sell the car quickly then don’t buy it or hang onto it. To assign a nefarious motive seems extreme.
I've laid out how this ultimately negatively affects the end user who actually wants to own the car. If you disagree with that logic, that is one thing, but that's the logic I am running with. So given that logic, do you think that's a wise end result for a car company that is trying to build brand relationships?

To put this in real terms, I purchased my 5BW on Cars and Bids. I placed an order with the dealership (for MSRP) in Oct 2021 my position in the queue has not changed since then. I found a car with [roughly] the same spec up for auction and jumped on it. I paid above MSRP because I wanted the car now, and am still not sure my dealership order will ever pan out. So in a world where the OP stipulations existed for my car, I would have gotten screwed out of a warranty, just for wanting the car and paying for it. This is VERY poor brand building.
perhaps or perhaps the person who sold you your car used wouldn’t have bought in the first place, allowing someone like yourself to have bought it new instead.

There are 30 bw5s for sale used right now most with under 400 miles. You see how many of these cars are built a week. Seems like a very large percent are going to people unlike yourself who are instead front running the market. While most people here may view this move as a market manipulation, I work in the financial markets and buying securities in front of legit end customers to sell them for a profit is front running and is an illegal market manipulation. This is a different market with different laws and while we may respectfully disagree, I think this is a solution that addresses what I see as a front running problem.
 
Last edited:

jumpmanjay

Seasoned Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
293
Location
Midwest
Explain how paying every zo6 owner 5k for holding their cars for a year is a money grab? Seriously, I get that this

perhaps or perhaps the person who sold you your car used wouldn’t have bought in the first place, allowing someone like yourself to have bought it new instead.

There are 30 bw5s for sale used right now most with under 400 miles. You see how many of these cars are built a week. Seems like a very large percent are going to people unlike yourself who are instead front running the market. While most people here may view this move as a market manipulation, I work in the financial markets and buying securities in front of legit end customers to sell them for a profit is front running and is an illegal market manipulation. This is a different market with different laws and while we may respectfully disagree, I think this is a solution that addresses what I see as a front running problem.
The guy I bought the car from lost his job, so he had to sell it.

I work in HFT. I think this solution still allows the front runners to profit and taxes the guy who missed the trade.
 

malakas

Seasoned Member
Joined
May 18, 2022
Messages
126
Location
California
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
Former CTS-V Wagon owner, aspiring CT5V Blackwing Owner
The guy I bought the car from lost his job, so he had to sell it.

I work in HFT. I think this solution still allows the front runners to profit and taxes the guy who missed the trade.
Guess we have ourselves a market here then as we both are financial professionals with different perspectives on the same instrument under revised terms.
 

soulsea

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2021
Messages
369
Location
Charleston, SC
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
alcoholics unanimous
There are 30 bw5s for sale used right now most with under 400 miles. You see how many of these cars are built a week. Seems like a very large percent are going to people unlike yourself who are instead front running the market. While most people here may view this move as a market manipulation, I work in the financial markets and buying securities in front of legit end customers to sell them for a profit is front running and is an illegal market manipulation. This is a different market with different laws and while we may respectfully disagree, I think this is a solution that addresses what I see as a front running problem.

You are hyper-focused on a statistically minor problem because you have a personal connection to it and it emotionally triggers you to some degree. I get it, it's upsetting to see people taking advantage of the market when living in the goat rodeo every day. Although for some reason no one seems to mind when we all do our best when we sell our other processions like our homes or securities ... something about others doing well selling cars really upsets people. It probably bothers you just as much, or at least should, that dealers are charging insane ADMs for these cars, but it's easier to get mad at the idea of a flipper than a dealer. This bugs people so much that they become blind to the fact that the proposed cure is worse than the disease.

I don't even understand what the argument for it is? Who other than an employees of GM or NADA is for anyone ceding their consumer or any other established rights to any organization? I mean maybe this policy will benefit a few in the short term but at what cost? Because once you relinquish something established, either expressly or through historical convention, you never get it back. A whole bunch of people a couple of decades ago said 'the patriot act is cool with me, take my privacy, I have nothing to hide'. And in a few years when GM charges you a subscription fee for your ventilated seats, how will you like the excuse of 'well we tested it Alaska and no one minded.' Just because one might not be directly personally affected by something being taken away from them, it doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for keeping it.

You're going to need those ventilated seats as you keep getting slow boiled.

---------------------------------------------

I'm honestly still trying to figure out to what extent this actually bothers me. Do I navigate through it with a pragmatic approach and buy the affected cars that I was going to keep over a year anyway and pass on the ones that I wasn't ... or do I take a principle stance and moving forward, just refuse to give my money to a corporation who tries to affect what I do with my shit after I buy it with my money whilst protecting their dealers who act even worse. That latter choice would be a permanent one.

I try to think if this had come out a year ago and it had included the 5BW. This is a car that I enjoy every day for 5000 miles and counting, ripped around the track, and makes me happy every time I'm in it, and still might sell in less than a year. Yet I would have missed out on it if this policy was in place when I ordered it. The Esky V isn't that hard a choice ... GM constrained parts and colors I wanted and still charged me $150k for it, I was already teetering on whether to go through with it, this policy makes that choice much easier. But I was really looking forward to the Z06. So yeah, looking at the mirror doing a principle/benefit analysis on the whole thing.

These are not serious problems ... but, they do merit some consideration. :)
 
Last edited:

tcolum

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
25
Location
08844
I agree with Soulsea's observations, but look what is on Cadillac's website. Cadillac's website now calls out the Escalade V. From the Cadillac website. "If I sell my car, do the warranties transfer to the new owner?"

"Yes. Those limited warranties that are still active will transfer to the new owner. 2023 Escalade-V limited warranty transferability is subject to a 12 month retention policy from the date of purchase. If ownership is transferred prior to this, The Bumper-to-Bumper, Powertrain, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages under GM’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided. See dealer or warranty manual for more details." They may not be able to do this on cars that have already been marketed and sold under an existing warranty policy. The Escalade V is, in effect, a new model is what I think is making the difference. Warranty and Repairs Information | Cadillac Ownership Personally, I don't think they should do this. 3 years ago, before all this crap started, when I may have sold my 3 year old Cadillac and taken a 50% haircut, were they there to hand me money? There are many cases of people having to wait many months or over a year to get the car, with NO COMMUNICATION from the dealer or Cadillac if and when it is coming. If things change, the consumer should have flexibility. Dealers who have sold these cars are taking NON REFUNDABLE deposits, so if they have the money, you have to take the car or lose your deposit. Should a consumer lose $5,000 because they will now decide to sell the car? Isn't it my car? I am also pretty sure GM is going to have a tough time denying warranty coverage on any car when there is absolutely no precedent for this being set across the entire industry in America on millions and millions of cars. None, zero, zip. And please, do not bring up Ferrari or the Ford GT. Those are truly boutique cars, and the dealers were 100% prohibited from markup in both cases.
 

tcolum

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
25
Location
08844
A poor choice of wording, GM has every right to only extend warranty to the original owner, there is no requirement that a warranty be transferable.

Canceling makes it seem like an active punitive step, when in fact it merely a passive step to not extend a privilege.

It may also inadvertently cut into the interim purchases people are making as they wait on their orders.

I guess no good deed can go unpunished...

Except they say exactly this (below) on their own Cadillac website. Parsing out the Escalade V may be possible because non have hit the street yet, but I am not sure that will even hold up. Hundreds of millions of cars have been sold in this country with no qualifier on the warranty period being passed to any subsequent owners. Courts and lawyers have a funny way of referencing precedent, and this would not pass that standard. No to mention dealers are buying these cars and reselling them openly, sometimes getting a 2nd markup on them. What are they going to do about that?​

If I sell my car, do the warranties transfer to the new owner?​

Yes. Those limited warranties that are still active will transfer to the new owner. 2023 Escalade-V limited warranty transferability is subject to a 12 month retention policy from the date of purchase. If ownership is transferred prior to this, The Bumper-to-Bumper, Powertrain, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages under GM’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided. See dealer or warranty manual for more details.
 

malakas

Seasoned Member
Joined
May 18, 2022
Messages
126
Location
California
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
Former CTS-V Wagon owner, aspiring CT5V Blackwing Owner
I agree with Soulsea's observations, but look what is on Cadillac's website. Cadillac's website now calls out the Escalade V. From the Cadillac website. "If I sell my car, do the warranties transfer to the new owner?"

"Yes. Those limited warranties that are still active will transfer to the new owner. 2023 Escalade-V limited warranty transferability is subject to a 12 month retention policy from the date of purchase. If ownership is transferred prior to this, The Bumper-to-Bumper, Powertrain, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages under GM’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided. See dealer or warranty manual for more details." They may not be able to do this on cars that have already been marketed and sold under an existing warranty policy. The Escalade V is, in effect, a new model is what I think is making the difference. Warranty and Repairs Information | Cadillac Ownership Personally, I don't think they should do this. 3 years ago, before all this crap started, when I may have sold my 3 year old Cadillac and taken a 50% haircut, were they there to hand me money? There are many cases of people having to wait many months or over a year to get the car, with NO COMMUNICATION from the dealer or Cadillac if and when it is coming. If things change, the consumer should have flexibility. Dealers who have sold these cars are taking NON REFUNDABLE deposits, so if they have the money, you have to take the car or lose your deposit. Should a consumer lose $5,000 because they will now decide to sell the car? Isn't it my car? I am also pretty sure GM is going to have a tough time denying warranty coverage on any car when there is absolutely no precedent for this being set across the entire industry in America on millions and millions of cars. None, zero, zip. And please, do not bring up Ferrari or the Ford GT. Those are truly boutique cars, and the dealers were 100% prohibited from markup in both cases.
I think the warrant piece will 100% hold up in court if GM does not retroactively implement a change. What happens to open orders on non-refundable deposits seems murky as this would be a change to terms on what one would have expected in placing said order. CA dealers cannot legally keep deposits but other states have different rules.

For what it’s worth, if this also later applies to blackwing models, I doubt it would be implemented retroactively. I agree with other poster comments that such a change if put in place retroactively would punish buyers more than flippers. My perspective on this issue is based on an assumption changes would not be retroactively applied. I believe none of this can happen unless the car is sold new with these warrant stipulations as you’ve pointed to on the Cadillac website.
 
Last edited:

Vertical V

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
13
Location
NY
I haven't seen anything from this that stops the original dealership from charging whatever ADM they choose. I'm trying to understand GM's logic, they're going to reduce demand which will automatically lower ADM? Ok fine, let's say GM eliminates the short term flippers and lowers demand slightly. They're just going to ignore the reasons unrelated to flipping that may cause someone to sell a vehicle within the first year. This policy will not age well, especially when the economy officially takes a dump. I need to see the fine print, what if you sell the car for what you paid or less, is that an acceptable transfer in GM's view? Not that it's any of GM's business what you sell it for but apparently that is now.
 

tcolum

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
25
Location
08844
I haven't seen anything from this that stops the original dealership from charging whatever ADM they choose. I'm trying to understand GM's logic, they're going to reduce demand which will automatically lower ADM? Ok fine, let's say GM eliminates the short term flippers and lowers demand slightly. They're just going to ignore the reasons unrelated to flipping that may cause someone to sell a vehicle within the first year. This policy will not age well, especially when the economy officially takes a dump. I need to see the fine print, what if you sell the car for what you paid or less, is that an acceptable transfer in GM's view? Not that it's any of GM's business what you sell it for but apparently that is now.
Not only does it not address the perceived original problem, suppose the dealer comes into possession of a car within 12 months? Estate sale for example. Are they now selling a car without warranty? I doubt it.
 

tcolum

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
25
Location
08844
I've laid out how this ultimately negatively affects the end user who actually wants to own the car. If you disagree with that logic, that is one thing, but that's the logic I am running with. So given that logic, do you think that's a wise end result for a car company that is trying to build brand relationships? The more restrictive measures are less bothersome because the logic actually follows that the party that is negatively affected is the flipper. The dealership doesn't sell above MSRP, so they don't get to take advantage, and the flipper cannot flip.

To put this in real terms, I purchased my 5BW on Cars and Bids. I placed an order with the dealership (for MSRP) in Oct 2021 my position in the queue has not changed since then. I found a car with [roughly] the same spec up for auction and jumped on it. I paid above MSRP because I wanted the car now, and am still not sure my dealership order will ever pan out. So in a world where the OP stipulations existed for my car, I would have gotten screwed out of a warranty, just for wanting the car and paying for it. This is VERY poor brand building.
Brand Building - Cadillac, and GM in general, have done an extremely poor job in communicating with their customers, and in giving their dealers information. All you have to do is try to find out status on a car, when it will be picked up, built, shipped, arrive, etc. If I were an exec at GM, I would be focused on my internal problems and not elsewhere. They have not in any way stopped their dealer network from selling at marked up prices. If the dealers are selling at MSRP, it is because they have made that decision themselves, and are of the mindset that they do not want to lose customers in the long run for a one time hit.
 

M2Cto4BW

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2022
Messages
583
Location
Bay Area, CA
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2022 CT4V Blackwing
A poor choice of wording, GM has every right to only extend warranty to the original owner, there is no requirement that a warranty be transferable.

Canceling makes it seem like an active punitive step, when in fact it merely a passive step to not extend a privilege.

It may also inadvertently cut into the interim purchases people are making as they wait on their orders.

I guess no good deed can go unpunished...
It is absolutely a punitive step against any consumer who decides to purchase a nearly new car on this list and for any seller who for whatever reason (some good, some 'bad') needs to sell inside the window.

It beggars belief how anyone (not you specifically, speaking generally) thinks this is a good thing for consumers.

It's like thinking subscription fees for options is a good thing.
 

ClassaxV

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
310
Location
Iowa Colony,TX
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2023 CT4V Blackwing (on Order)
It is absolutely a punitive step against any consumer who decides to purchase a nearly new car on this list and for any seller who for whatever reason (some good, some 'bad') needs to sell inside the window.

It beggars belief how anyone (not you specifically, speaking generally) thinks this is a good thing for consumers.

It's like thinking subscription fees for options is a good thing.

It's not a step against the new buyer, it's a step that reduces the value for potential flippers. Flipping new retail items is bad for the entire economy as it both artificially creates shortages of supply, increased demand, and raises prices while also wreaking havoc with indecies that help us understand the markets.

And for the record dealers sell used cars "as is" all the time, it isn't new.
 

M2Cto4BW

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2022
Messages
583
Location
Bay Area, CA
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2022 CT4V Blackwing
It's not a step against the new buyer, it's a step that reduces the value for potential flippers. Flipping new retail items is bad for the entire economy as it both artificially creates shortages of supply, increased demand, and raises prices while also wreaking havoc with indecies that help us understand the markets.

And for the record dealers sell used cars "as is" all the time, it isn't new.
These are $100k+ cars. This 'impacts' the most fortunate of the 1%, it' not remotely touching the entire economy. How many 5BWs, Z06s, Esc Vs are being flipped? No way to tell; pick your most alarmist % from production numbers and it's still tiny in the grand scheme of things: it's a storm in a teacup.

You know what impacts the economy to a greater degree? Manufacuturers doing nothing to rein in their greedy and predatory dealers to throw 10%+ ADMs on bog standard $30k cars.
 

tcolum

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
25
Location
08844
It's not a step against the new buyer, it's a step that reduces the value for potential flippers. Flipping new retail items is bad for the entire economy as it both artificially creates shortages of supply, increased demand, and raises prices while also wreaking havoc with indecies that help us understand the markets.

And for the record dealers sell used cars "as is" all the time, it isn't new.
No disrespect intended here, but dealers do not sell a car that still has a balance of the manufacturer warranty available "as is". A Cadillac, or any other GM dealer, does not take in a car with 10,000 miles on it, and forsake the manufacturers warranty. They use the remaining warranty as a value add to increase the value and appeal of the vehicle. If we are having a debate, let's use realistic examples. I have bought and owned about 23 GM vehicles in the last 25 years, most used, all bought at a dealership for this exact reason. So in this case, I would dare say I know what I am talking about. And no, I am not talking about an extended warranty. I have never bought an extended warranty on any car. I am not even debating the practice GM is thinking about, as they will not be able to enforce it anyway. Imagine a dealership going through the questions trying to figure out where you bought the car, and how much you paid for it, and how old was it, etc. And why is it 12 months, and not the balance of the original warranty? I buy it used at 366 days and I am automatically the good guy, and I get a warranty? What if I still paid $25K over? Suppose this diabolical group of 40 or 50 flippers decides that 366 days is part of their business model. If you think the dealer is going to go through that and potentially alienate (more) customers, good luck. To me, the real issue is GM making yet another huge blunder by trying to control a vehicle that is no longer theirs. As I stated before, they do not seem to mind when you buy a new vehicle, and 3 years later offer you 1/2 or less of purchase price as trade in value. Why aren't they protecting the consumer from the great injustices in those cases? The entire concept is as unenforceable as it is ridiculous.
 

Barstoolman1127

Seasoned Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Messages
110
Location
Henderson, Nv
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2022 Cadillac CT4 Blackwing
It's not a step against the new buyer, it's a step that reduces the value for potential flippers. Flipping new retail items is bad for the entire economy as it both artificially creates shortages of supply, increased demand, and raises prices while also wreaking havoc with indecies that help us understand the markets.

And for the record dealers sell used cars "as is" all the time, it isn't new.
What's bad is the dealership network charging outrageous ADMs for vehicles. Again, all GM has to do is not allot cars to dealerships that charge ADMs.........
It's not a step against the new buyer, it's a step that reduces the value for potential flippers. Flipping new retail items is bad for the entire economy as it both artificially creates shortages of supply, increased demand, and raises prices while also wreaking havoc with indecies that help us understand the markets.

And for the record dealers sell used cars "as is" all the time, it isn't new.
Its simply a silly and misguided step.....rather than trying to rein in their greedy dealership network from trying to charge ridiculous ADMS, they're focusing on their customers. For you to fall into their thinking, is kind of hard to believe. Flippers have little, if any, impact on our economy. Dealers charging 20%-100% markups, do!!!
 

Win a CT4-V Blackwing!

Supporting Vendors

Taput Tunning LLC

V-Series Marketplace

Advertise with the Cadillac V-Net!

Torque Shop

Our Partners

Top Bottom