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CT4 on the Chopping Block?

Finally-a-V

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V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2022 CT5 V Blackwing
I hesitate to put these two links out there. They are from Cadillac Society. I thought the best piece of info is that 2024 production will end on May 30. That's good info for anyone looking to place and order for a 4 or a 5 for MY 2024.

The other part is the subjective part. They do not think there will be a 2025 CT4 based on no refresh and sales are down huge (last place in segment) Q3 over Q3 (down 26%) and about even YOY 2022 to 2023 in the second article. They can't get confirmation there will be a 2025.

The articles taken at face value, without reading into them, does make some sense, but again, it's GM. Perhaps it will just soldier on unchanged. I'm sure there are some people here with better info.

Article one: Here's When Production Of The 2024 Cadillac CT4 Will End

Article two: How Much Longer Can The Cadillac CT4 Hang On?
 
Wow - thanks for posting. 4 BW is a great car and I think very competitive in its segment (and with MT specially desirable)....CT 4 V (though I've never driven one) seems to make sense as well - seems respectable...at least performance wise. I can;t feel the same way about the regular CT 4. Having driven one once it didn't thrill or excite me in any way. I couldn't see buying one over just about anything else in its segment - Korean or Japanese (does BWM or Audi even make cars in that category?). So I'm not surprised.

If true - no 2025 or beyond...I will be sorry for all those who have pre-ordered or have wished for a new 4 BW and won't be able to get one...but for those of us who have em....well they will be more rare and special...and un-updated... (and possibly more valuable down the road)...
 
And not to muddy the waters more, here's a spy shot of the 2025 5BW with the new front end. You can see the emblems covered and it has BW wheels and rear spoiler.

2024-Cadillac-CT5-V-Blackwing-Prototype-Spy-Shots-Radiant-Red-Tintcoat-July-2023-Exterior-002-...jpg
 
Since you did muddy the waters, I guess it is OK to reply about the 5 front end :) For me, the problem remains updating the front end to the new design language and leaving the back end unchanged. The 2 do not go together at all. Very unfortunate.

Also interesting to see the test car has a misaligned driver's door. Sigh...
 
I love the look of the current 5 - front and back. The only change I would consider is the rear window/C pillar which is a bit funky.

I also like the look of the 4 - even the back...though not as nice as the 5 IMO. I still think the old ATS-V looks better - much more aggressive, distinctive and special.
 
The no refresh is the biggest flag for me. No refresh and it’s definitely possible it’s on the chopping block.
 
The disguises can be the visible ones as much as the hidden ones. That could be some mule variation with badges to confuse its real identity. Or, it could just be more GMA clickbait.

The CT4 news does settle the 4 v 5 debate as the 5BW is clearly way more interesting to the general public :cool:
 
I love the look of the current 5 - front and back. The only change I would consider is the rear window/C pillar which is a bit funky.

I also like the look of the 4 - even the back...though not as nice as the 5 IMO. I still think the old ATS-V looks better - much more aggressive, distinctive and special.
Yes, the V-3 exterior was on point! interior was decent too until you used the infotainment?
 
The disguises can be the visible ones as much as the hidden ones. That could be some mule variation with badges to confuse its real identity. Or, it could just be more GMA clickbait.

The CT4 news does settle the 4 v 5 debate as the 5BW is clearly way more interesting to the general public :cool:

I would think the 5BW is more desirable overall based on its larger size and supercharged V8, but less affordable, which means it remains a low volume vehicle. Not a real profit maker for GM.

IMO, the 4BW is over priced. These cars should be $50k, $60K fully loaded. Most builds on dealers lots are $68k-$75k.

That said, if I am shopping for something over $100k I would more than likely pick up a C8 Z06.
 
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IMO, the 4BW is over priced. These cars should be $50k, $60K fully loaded. Most builds on dealers lots are high $60s
You are right…. If your statement was made 10-15 years back.

An integra type s is 52k. A base Audi s3 is 50k+.

The ct4 if specced properly(<70k) is great value.
 
Z06 is a stunning car, but...you know the story; way less practical, way more attention flare, and no manual, all of which may be cool with you, but my money is on the largely peerless, cut out of work early, adult funhouse 5BW manual. I'm 12 on the inside, drink beer, race motorcycles, and don't have a bourbon or watch collection...oh and I just did the NASCAR experience at Daytona so I might grow a mullet.
 
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You are right…. If your statement was made 10-15 years back.

An integra type s is 52k. A base Audi s3 is 50k+.

The ct4 if specced properly(<70k) is great value.

I will admit I am struggling to accept the last few years of inflation but if you look at the current price of a fully loaded SS 1LE, which is/was made by the same group of folks coming off the same assembly line there is definitely a Cadillac tax added to the 4BW.

The SS 1LE includes HUD, Recaro bucket seats with heat and ventilation, E-diff, 6 piston Brembos, rear view mirror camera, 20" wheels, dual mode exhaust, drive modes, hood wrap, Tremec TR6060 and of course a LT1 V8. This same SS 1LE was $48k just a few years ago when I owned one. My 2021 ZL1 with A10 was only $67k MSRP.

I get that there should be some premium for the Cadillac, longer warranty, etc. but IMO a 4BW should not be $15k-$20k more than this SS 1LE just because it has 2 extra doors and Cadillac badge. I assume one of the reasons is because it competes against other luxury brands such as BMW and Audi.

I guess my point is, if Chevy still had the SS sedan with updated styling with all the 4BW goodies and it was around this price I would have no problem buying it over my 4BW. Furthermore, as we have seen with the ATS-Vs and now 4BWs the depreciation is pretty nasty.

If you give up the leather rear seats no one can fit in, some interior lighting option and rear view mirror cam you are around $50k for a 1SS 1LE.

Screenshot 2023-12-29 at 7.36.13 PM.png


2SS 1LE
Screenshot 2023-12-29 at 7.08.18 PM.png
 
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Z06 is a stunning car, but...you know the story; way less practical, way more attention flare, and no manual, all of which may be cool with you, but my money is on the largely peerless, cut out of work early, adult funhouse 5BW manual. I'm 12 on the inside, drink beer, race motorcycles, and don't have a bourbon or watch collection...oh and I just did the NASCAR experience at Daytona so I might grow a mullet.
Agreed, I would hope the exotic exhaust note would satisfy me but you're right, I would miss the manual transmission after a couple weeks.
 
I wish that Cadillac had changed the look of the hood on the 5BW's to something with vents or scoops. It would be nice to just order a factory hood and swap it out with earlier years.
 
I will admit I am struggling to accept the last few years of inflation but if you look at the current price of a fully loaded SS 1LE, which is/was made by the same group of folks coming off the same assembly line there is definitely a Cadillac tax added to the 4BW.

The SS 1LE includes HUD, Recaro bucket seats with heat and ventilation, E-diff, 6 piston Brembos, rear view mirror camera, 20" wheels, dual mode exhaust, drive modes, hood wrap, Tremec TR6060 and of course a LT1 V8. This same SS 1LE was $48k just a few years ago when I owned one. My 2021 ZL1 with A10 was only $67k MSRP.

I get that there should be some premium for the Cadillac, longer warranty, etc. but IMO a 4BW should not be $15k-$20k more than this SS 1LE just because it has 2 extra doors and Cadillac badge. I assume one of the reasons is because it competes against other luxury brands such as BMW and Audi.

I guess my point is, if Chevy still had the SS sedan with updated styling with all the 4BW goodies and it was around this price I would have no problem buying it over my 4BW. Furthermore, as we have seen with the ATS-Vs and now 4BWs the depreciation is pretty nasty.

If you give up the leather rear seats no one can fit in, some interior lighting option and rear view mirror cam you are around $50k for a 1SS 1LE.

View attachment 23364

2SS 1LE
View attachment 23363
I don’t get the Camaro comparison at all. If you’re ok with 2 doors of course there are a lot of options. 4 doors 4 usable seats , there’s definitely a premium for that.

Also judging by your comparison itself a 6k premium for a ct4 over a 2ss 1le seems more than fair
 
I don’t get the Camaro comparison at all. If you’re ok with 2 doors of course there are a lot of options. 4 doors 4 usable seats , there’s definitely a premium for that.

Also judging by your comparison itself a 6k premium for a ct4 over a 2ss 1le seems more than fair

I know it is not an apples to apples comparison but when you compare what you get for the money it is a pretty big difference. The 1SS 1LE is a better comparison to my base 4BW actually considering it includes the Recaro seats and HUD.

My $61,500 2022 4BW has base seats with no ventilation, no HUD, uninspiring 18" wheels, although the PS4S tires are very good. LF4 vs. LT1 V8, mainly for the exhaust note. I would have to get closer to a $70k build to pick up the ventilated seats and HUD.

I never really have anyone in my car so the 2 extra doors are not much value and it is tight back there anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the 4BW and enjoy the car very much especially the much better visibility and driving position versus the Camaro but I still think it is overpriced for what you get. The rapid depreciation these car tend to suffer makes me think the overall market agrees.
 
Z06 is a stunning car, but...you know the story; way less practical, way more attention flare, and no manual, all of which may be cool with you, but my money is on the largely peerless, cut out of work early, adult funhouse 5BW manual. I'm 12 on the inside, drink beer, race motorcycles, and don't have a bourbon or watch collection...oh and I just did the NASCAR experience at Daytona so I might grow a mullet.
Excellent! I might be your other brother Darryl!
 
Put AWD in the 4BW and it's an instant ADM queen. Today's trends don't fit with yesterday's marvel (Blackwings) these cars come from the minds of ppl who lived in an era of passion before everything became a numbers game and a dickagram contest.
 
I know it is not an apples to apples comparison but when you compare what you get for the money it is a pretty big difference. The 1SS 1LE is a better comparison to my base 4BW actually considering it includes the Recaro seats and HUD.

My $61,500 2022 4BW has base seats with no ventilation, no HUD, uninspiring 18" wheels, although the PS4S tires are very good. LF4 vs. LT1 V8, mainly for the exhaust note. I would have to get closer to a $70k build to pick up the ventilated seats and HUD.

I never really have anyone in my car so the 2 extra doors are not much value and it is tight back there anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the 4BW and enjoy the car very much especially the much better visibility and driving position versus the Camaro but I still think it is overpriced for what you get. The rapid depreciation these car tend to suffer makes me think the overall market agrees.
That Camaro you laid out is pretty much best bang for the buck sports car hands down!
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I believe that the CT4-V comes with the awesome Magnaride and the Camaro does not. To me, that alone is worth the price difference, even before I consider the coffin-like interior styling of the kind of awkward-looking Chevy.
 

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