5th gen V?

[jbawden]

With GM pumping the regenerative brakes on their EV program and the next generation small block in development, what I once thought extremely unlikely seems to be more plausible by the day; a 5th gen V/BW sedan?

GM's Next-Gen Small-Block V8 Will Arrive in 2027

General Motors will spend nearly a billion dollars tooling up Buffalo for its sixth-generation of small-block V8 production.

www.thedrive.com

 

[pmsteinm]

I just hope they don't go the BMW/MB route and turn it into a hybrid. But based on decades of watching GM I think they will do that, right as the market moves to something else leaving them with the wrong product at the wrong time

But who knows. A few years ago when they released the CT5-V (non-BW) it looked like the V series was done. Then the BW comes along and by all accounts knocks it out of the park. So here's hoping they continue the line and done go the Euro route.

 

[CB34]

With GM pumping the regenerative brakes on their EV program and the next generation small block in development, what I once thought extremely unlikely seems to be more plausible by the day; a 5th gen V/BW sedan?

GM's Next-Gen Small-Block V8 Will Arrive in 2027

General Motors will spend nearly a billion dollars tooling up Buffalo for its sixth-generation of small-block V8 production.

www.thedrive.com

This is for their truck and SUV motors. Jury is still out on the fate of the LT4 given that the Camaro is gone and the Corvette doesn’t use it.

 

[rdollie]

I think that's an emergency replacement for the L87. GM is going to need to build a LOT of them to replace L87s and for new trucks/SUVs as well. I'd prefer a revised version of the trusted LT4 for the next BW.

 

[jbawden]

I can assure you that the basic architecture of the new small block is designed to have a number of potential variants just like LS and LT did. Not saying there will be many variants, but 100% there will be the potential for HP versions along side whatever pedestrian version that goes in the Tahoe.

I'd take a correctly machined/assembled LT4 over any future version that is going to be crammed with incremental fuel saving and related technology. The LS1 was a good motor, but it took a while to get it perfect with the LS3.

 

[CBH]

The announcement is a re-hash of the original some months, or maybe even a year or two ago. 2027 is when regular production will begin. It specifically said trucks and Tahoe/Suburbans were the target. But it's impossible to believe the Corvette won't get some variant of the next-gen V8.

Unfortunately, I don't think it bodes well for more Cadillac sedans in the future. Most likely best case is the existing CT4 and 5 keep on going...........

 

[AdamUCF]

Most likely best case is the existing CT4 and 5 keep on going...........

I think if they were going to keep the CT4 going they would've refreshed it alongside the CT5. Sales just aren't good enough to even warrant a refresh.

 

[Soundman414]

Cadillac's long-term goal depends on the sales success of the 4+ electric SUVs. If they are a huge sales success, then expect ICE to truly die on the Caddy side. IF the reception is mumm, then they will probably try and have an ICE-based sub-lineup of both cars and SUVs with hybrid.

I guess that the continued sales success of the ICEcalade and the CT5 BW will be a factor they can't ignore. They will also feel the pain when they kill off the XT4, XT5, and XT6 soon, and dealers no longer have easy sales for electric-hesitant customers.

On the GM side, they need to be prepared for the fact that they will be launching a newly developed V8 engine 1 year before a presidential election that could have huge implications for whether their investment pays off. The current rollback of increased standards for emissions and fuel economy is likely to be temporary, regardless of which party wins the next few presidential elections.

 

[AdamUCF]

On the GM side, they need to be prepared for the fact that they will be launching a newly developed V8 engine 1 year before a presidential election that could have huge implications for whether their investment pays off. The current rollback of increased standards for emissions and fuel economy is likely to be temporary, regardless of which party wins the next few presidential elections.

As an owner of an EV truck who truly loves it, I do recognize the downsides vs ICE. I think a V8 is a safe bet for trucks and large SUVs at this point. Cars are another story but seems like they have to do a performance variant for the Corvette so maybe a sedan too?

 

[Finally-a-V]

IIRC, once the XT's are killed off, the only ICE left will be the CT's and the Escalade. They will keep the ICE Escalade as their sales are very strong, and it's no big deal to produce it next to the Tahoe/Yukon. So, what's the future for the CT? I read they are working on an EV version, so I guess it comes down to sales. When sales dump, I think they are gone.....worse case, when the EV version is ready.

 

[hawk02]

IIRC, once the XT's are killed off, the only ICE left will be the CT's and the Escalade. They will keep the ICE Escalade as their sales are very strong, and it's no big deal to produce it next to the Tahoe/Yukon. So, what's the future for the CT? I read they are working on an EV version, so I guess it comes down to sales. When sales dump, I think they are gone.....worse case, when the EV version is ready.

Until the infrastructure is in place to make EV charging convenient, I don't see the EV market being anything but niche.

Yes, home charging can be convenient, but what about all the apartment complexes and multifamily dwellings? I've have yet to see one apartment complex with more than one token charging station. Most don't have a charging station at all.

My condo complex in Florida with 660 units is a great example. The board has looked into installing a charging station but has backed off because the cost is extremely expensive and the owners don't want to see their HOA fees increased to pay for it.

 

[Finally-a-V]

Until the infrastructure is in place to make EV charging convenient, I don't see the EV market being anything but niche.

Yes, home charging can be convenient, but what about all the apartment complexes and multifamily dwellings? I've have yet to see one apartment complex with more than one token charging station. Most don't have a charging station at all.

My condo complex in Florida with 660 units is a great example. The board has looked into installing a charging station but has backed off because the cost is extremely expensive and the owners don't want to see their HOA fees increased to pay for it.

I agree 100%. I was in California last month for a week doing part of PCH. Stayed in many hotels, I should have paid more attention, but I don't recall ANY chargers at any of those hotels. It really made me stop and think, how do we go full EV? As you said, what about all the MDU's. Who's going to pay for all this? The cost! My God the cost. Imagine if every hotel has to put in 2-10 charging stations. You think hotels are expensive now? Our current gov't pretty much is pulling/doing away with anything EV, so any hope of subsidizing isn't going to happen. If EV doesn't take off, what IS Cadillacs future since they seem determined to go all EV?

 

[AdamUCF]

Until the infrastructure is in place to make EV charging convenient, I don't see the EV market being anything but niche.

Yes, home charging can be convenient, but what about all the apartment complexes and multifamily dwellings? I've have yet to see one apartment complex with more than one token charging station. Most don't have a charging station at all.

My condo complex in Florida with 660 units is a great example. The board has looked into installing a charging station but has backed off because the cost is extremely expensive and the owners don't want to see their HOA fees increased to pay for it.

DCFC is getting better. Ionna (which GM is part of) is expanding rapidly. Tesla opening up to other OEMs was a game changer.

I think you're right about apartments and condos being a problem. But most EVs are expensive and most people that can afford an EV live in single family homes. Of course that's changing especially as more EVs get to the used market and prices come down for new EVs. I think a lot of the problem has been a lack of commercial options for AC/level2 chargers. I think it's changing but ChargePoint has been almost the only game in town and they're massively overpriced. Tesla's units can be an option but you're really stuck in with them. Of course a lot of the cost is often just the electrical work and that can vary wildly depending on the site requirements.

It's insane to me that more hotels don't offer charging. It doesn't even need to be free but just equivalent or less than local DCFC rates and they could easily make their money back.

 

[ngoni]

Until the infrastructure is in place to make EV charging convenient, I don't see the EV market being anything but niche.

Yes, home charging can be convenient, but what about all the apartment complexes and multifamily dwellings? I've have yet to see one apartment complex with more than one token charging station. Most don't have a charging station at all.

My condo complex in Florida with 660 units is a great example. The board has looked into installing a charging station but has backed off because the cost is extremely expensive and the owners don't want to see their HOA fees increased to pay for it.

This 100%. We don't have the substation or power delivery infrastructure to keep up with current demands. Adding 1+ EV to every household is going to create rolling blackouts across the country unless folks are OK with a 6-8 hour slow charge.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

I agree 100%. I was in California last month for a week doing part of PCH. Stayed in many hotels, I should have paid more attention, but I don't recall ANY chargers at any of those hotels. It really made me stop and think, how do we go full EV? As you said, what about all the MDU's. Who's going to pay for all this? The cost! My God the cost. Imagine if every hotel has to put in 2-10 charging stations. You think hotels are expensive now? Our current gov't pretty much is pulling/doing away with anything EV, so any hope of subsidizing isn't going to happen. If EV doesn't take off, what IS Cadillacs future since they seem determined to go all EV?

Cadillac is probably doing the same thing as other ICE automakers who went all-in on electrification - figuring out how to walk it back. The whole thing depended on government mandates and subsidization for the infrastructure, and now that is never going to happen in the US. AFAIK Cadillac has no meaningful presence worldwide except for China, and the Chinese EV makers are going to absolutely eat their lunch in their home market.

Considering the time and expense to develop a car (including the supply chain, assembly lines, etc.) it's going to be really expensive and disruptive to go back to competitive ICE vehicles. I hope they can figure it out, or Cadillac is almost certainly going to get chopped by GM.

 

[hawk02]

Last week, when I took my BW in to have the battery tested, the dealer brought me home and picked me up in a LYRIQ. I have to say, it was a very comfortable ride with a quiet interior, but there was nothing about the car to get excited about. Even the driver admitted he would rather drive my BW over the LYRIQ.

That’s a problem these manufacturers are facing with their EVs—there’s nothing about them that makes customers say, “I’ve got to have one.” They’re nice, but also boring at the same time.

 

[CB34]

Last week, when I took my BW in to have the battery tested, the dealer brought me home and picked me up in a LYRIQ. I have to say, it was a very comfortable ride with a quiet interior, but there was nothing about the car to get excited about. Even the driver admitted he would rather drive my BW over the LYRIQ.

That’s a problem these manufacturers are facing with their EVs—there’s nothing about them that makes customers say, “I’ve got to have one.” They’re nice, but also boring at the same time.

It turns the car into an appliance, much like what an iPhone is today. That's why there is such a push to monetize as many features they can on a monthly fee - so you have to pay if you want to use your car's infotainment at all for the entire time you own it.

The only thing they have left to keep people trading every 3-5 is that many people view cars as status symbols and don't want to be seen driving old or undesirable cars. Otherwise you can buy one and keep it for 10-15 years.

 

[DCV]

Until the infrastructure is in place to make EV charging convenient, I don't see the EV market being anything but niche.

Yes, home charging can be convenient, but what about all the apartment complexes and multifamily dwellings? I've have yet to see one apartment complex with more than one token charging station. Most don't have a charging station at all.

My condo complex in Florida with 660 units is a great example. The board has looked into installing a charging station but has backed off because the cost is extremely expensive and the owners don't want to see their HOA fees increased to pay for it.

Same for me. In my DC condo building built in 1979, there is no power outlets close to any parking spaces in the garage. Also (Board) we looked into it, and found that we'd have to add in whole new wiring with its own fuse panel to bring enough KVA into the building to have chargers, and routing power cables would be a problem too. Might even have to get the power transformer changed out too. So for me, that's a no go. DC is full of older and pre-war buildings in the same issues. Simply no way to add chargers.