5BW 6sp - heel and toe issues

[Champale]

Hey guys - got my 5BW 6sp last week and love it. But what's up with the throttle pedal placement? I've been heel and toe-ing for 20+ years on a ton of different cars and have never experienced one that is so tricky to even graze the gas pedal when downshifting . I think it's a combination of the throttle pedal being so close to the transmission tunnel and also being further in towards the firewall than the brake pedal.

Anyone else notice this issue? I found some mentions in other threads but no solutions. I went ahead and ordered SRP pedals for my car and will install the wider throttle pedal first and see if that helps. I wear a normal width size 11 shoe and have tried several shoes with varying sole widths but none make it much better.

And yes, I know that I can just turn on rev matching. It's a nice feature but I enjoy heel and toe-ing and my other 2 manual cars don't have it and I don't want to start confusing myself.

 

[ukcats12]

I haven't had a problem with this at all. I just brake with the left side of my foot and blip the throttle with the right side. The pedals seem perfectly placed to me.

 

[Champale]

You are lucky! It just doesn't work for me consistently and am very good at in in pretty much every other car I've ever tried it in - Vipers, 911s, GT350Rs, Evoras, Type Rs, M3s, etc etc etc.

 

[SS_Shooter]

I haven't had a problem with this at all. I just brake with the left side of my foot and blip the throttle with the right side. The pedals seem perfectly placed to me.

Yes, same deal here. It seems the same as my past V's and a decent setup for heel-toe.

I don't want to use the rev matching (even though it's a little better than me at getting the RPM's exactly right) because I want to keep my skills sharp for my other manual cars...

 

[BimmerFan]

I'll say that it is a little different from what I'm used to, and I'm still perfecting my skill on the BW since the throttle is more responsive than what I've had with BMWs, Porsches, etc. However, it's nothing really "bad" IMHO.

 

[Champale]

The SRP pedals are supposed to arrive next week. Will update thread when I'm able to drive it a little with the new throttle pedal.

I've owned a ton on manual sports cars and only had one other one with heel and toe issues - a 2017 Focus RS, a car which had notoriously weird pedal placement and a grabby brake pedal that made smooth heel and toe very difficult. Several companies made throttle pedal adjuster plates to relocate it and that pretty much cured most of it so that's why I am hopeful about installing a slightly wider and thicker throttle pedal.

Questions for you guys saying you can heel and toe smoothly: what brake pedal setting do you have you car on and what size shoe do you wear?

 

[BimmerFan]

Questions for you guys saying you can heel and toe smoothly: what brake pedal setting do you have you car on and what size shoe do you wear?

I have the default "normal" brake pedal setting (I usually drive in Tour mode) and wear size 8 on my tiny feets.

The worst car I ever had for H&T was a Triumph TR-6. Huge gap in height between the pedals and massive brake pedal travel. So it only really worked when you were braking hard, and even then it was a challenge d/t the gap.

Mind the gap, huh, I guess that's where it started. LOL

 

[SS_Shooter]

Questions for you guys saying you can heel and toe smoothly: what brake pedal setting do you have you car on and what size shoe do you wear?

I have the 'Braking' setting at the 50% mark in 'My Mode' and size 11.5 shoes.

I've got the ball of my foot and my big toe on the brake pedal, then just pointing my toes and moving my leg down a bit to blip the throttle. If you aren't getting enough 'blip', perhaps some of the modes have a different throttle response curve, so even a small throttle movement would result in a good-sized blip.

FYI, I do remember having 'shiny' racing pedals in another V (either my 2004 or 2010), and they were really tough to use when my feet were wet or the pedals were wet (like in the snow). They had little rubber dots on them the size of chocolate chips. Sometimes I'd accidentally sidestep the clutch because it would pop out from under my (also zero-grip when wet) leather Chelsea boot sole.

 

[Champale]

No matter what shoes I've tried, I can't get a consistent hit on the throttle with my foot. I have had the brake setting on track, though, so maybe it sits a little higher up than is ideal. When I get it back from PPF next week, I will try some other settings. I wear a size 11 and have tried my usual go-to driving loafers, sneakers, dress shoes, etc.

That's funny about the TR-6 - one of my childhood dream cars! My uncle had one and I loved it.

 

[Bocian]

I don't have the 5BW but the pedal boxes look the same. Anyways, the pedals are setup to be used on a track not so much the street. When you are driving on the street you don't use the brake pedal all the way down so it doesn't line up with the accelerator nicely.

Try it next time you are parked, turn on the car and depress the brake pedal lightly and try to heel toe, then press the brake deeply then try to heel toe.

My 4BW feels just like that. I leave rev matching on for street driving since it's harder to brake more fully on the street.

 

[Champale]

I don't have the 5BW but the pedal boxes look the same. Anyways, the pedals are setup to be used on a track not so much the street. When you are driving on the street you don't use the brake pedal all the way down so it doesn't line up with the accelerator nicely.

Try it next time you are parked, turn on the car and depress the brake pedal lightly and try to heel toe, then press the brake deeply then try to heel toe.

My 4BW feels just like that. I leave rev matching on for street driving since it's harder to brake more fully on the street.

Although I understand what you are saying, I feel like the pedals just aren't lined up quite right. I had already spent time in the car trying to re-align my feet on the pedals to no avail.

I've been heel-ing and toe-ing for 20 years with essentially no issues - high speed tracking, low speed around town, everything. I also have a 2020 GT350R and recently sold a 2021 Civic Type R, two of the track-iest track cars you can buy short of a GT3RS, and those cars can be easily heel and toe'd doing everything from heavy braking at triple digits to making a low speed 90 degree turn in town. Even my Lotus Evora 400 - with it's tiny pedals and stiff throttle spring - can be heel and toe'd way more easily than this 5BW.

I can't wait to get the car back this week and do more experimenting!

 

[99sport]

Same issue. I've not had a problem with a dozen other cars. Drove a 4 BW on the track and heel and toed subconsciously without issue. Can't pull it off on the 5. Trans tunnel is wider?

 

[Champale]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one! I would need to sit in a 4BW 6sp to see if there is a difference.

 

[Bourbonp]

No matter what shoes I've tried, I can't get a consistent hit on the throttle with my foot. I have had the brake setting on track, though, so maybe it sits a little higher up than is ideal. When I get it back from PPF next week, I will try some other settings. I wear a size 11 and have tried my usual go-to driving loafers, sneakers, dress shoes, etc.

That's funny about the TR-6 - one of my childhood dream cars! My uncle had one and I loved it.

Speaking about the TR-6, I owned one (‘76) and had so much fun with it!

 

[Champale]

Beautiful car!

 

[Champale]

UPDATE: Finally got the SRP throttle pedal installed this morning and took it for a quick drive. 100% fixed the heel and toe issues for me - now I can do it just as easily as in any other car. The pedal is at least 1/2" wider towards the brake pedal. Plus with the minor added thickness of the aluminum pedal that is screwed into the original pedal it has made the whole blipping trouble-free. My foot no longer has to be so far over than the heel rubs the tunnel.

Anyway, I highly recommend doing this if you are having the same issue! Install takes 10-15 minutes - just drill some small holes and screw in the self-tapping screws.

 

[SS_Shooter]

UPDATE: Finally got the SRP throttle pedal installed this morning and took it for a quick drive. 100% fixed the heel and toe issues

Can you post up a link to those pedals?

ALSO, if you set 'Brake Feel' for more aggressive, the pedal doesn't move down as much under hard braking.

If you set 'Brake Feel' for Less aggressive, the pedal will sink more under braking. Perhaps more brake pedal movement will help people having issues with heel/toe.

 

[Champale]

I have experimented with the pedal settings and agree that Touring places the effective bite point of the brake pedal closer to the floorboard than the other settings. However, it almost feels like it goes TOO FAR towards the floorboard if you really are driving the car, ahem, 'briskly'. Almost like you are running out of brakes, which is disconcerting.

Here are the pedals. I got the pedal in diamond and wide throttle pedal.

Cadillac CT4 and CT5 2020- Racing Pedals

Racing pedals for Cadillac CT4 and CT5 and CT4-V and CT5-V and Blackwing Choose from narrow and wide gas pedals, picture and dimensions in gallery. The wide gas pedal will help make heel toe downshifts easy Our pedals are CNC machined from billet aluminum for the ultimate grip and sizing for...

www.srpracing.com

 

[Erving Rodriguez]

I haven't had a problem with this at all. I just brake with the left side of my foot and blip the throttle with the right side. The pedals seem perfectly placed to me.

Same here also on the BMW product where throttle pedal starts at the bottom

 

[SS_Shooter]

Here are the pedals. I got the pedal in diamond and wide throttle pedal.

Cadillac CT4 and CT5 2020- Racing Pedals

Racing pedals for Cadillac CT4 and CT5 and CT4-V and CT5-V and Blackwing Choose from narrow and wide gas pedals, picture and dimensions in gallery. The wide gas pedal will help make heel toe downshifts easy Our pedals are CNC machined from billet aluminum for the ultimate grip and sizing for...

www.srpracing.com

They look a little slippery. Are they slippery?