I am not sure I love my 5BW

[rubberduck]

With a 2011 Audi S4 as the benchmark for vehicle standards, it's easy to see how the CT5-V Blackwing just doesn't compare.

I had a tuned and modded 2011 S4 for 8 years and it was a great car. But, it ain’t no 5BW.

 

[thefleshrocket]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Regarding the traction control settings, I assume that each more-aggressive setting allows more slip angle than one below it, so Race 2 should be the best for getting sideways while still having some sort of safety net. Is that an accurate assumption?

The M5 and Charger Hellcat are out because no manual transmissions. The 4BW is out because no turbos. Which, I guess takes the F80 M3 out of the running, too. Absolutely nothing electric. No, I didn't test drive anything else--the 5BW was expected to be my fleet's unicorn halo car. Which it is.

Gas goes on the company credit card, so not a concern. Though along those lines, I wish the 5BW had a bigger tank to offset my heavy foot. It seems like it's in need of a fill-up every couple days despite mostly driving around town.

Probably a lot of why the 5BW doesn't feel as quick as it is, is because the powerband is so broad. It feels like it pulls almost as hard at 3000rpm as it does at 6000. My Mustang Cobra makes more horsepower than torque so there is some extra urge at the top of the tach that makes it more rewarding to run it up that high. Maybe I just need to do that $11K blower / tune upgrade that was posted a few weeks ago. 771whp, IIRC.

 

[Dirkbg]

If you attend Spring Mountain they will explain the traction control settings, and they have an exercise to show how they work. In the class they show how the traction control and stability control change through the five PTM settings, with both 100% at Wet, reducing through Dry to 50% at Sport, then stability off at R1 and R2 with traction control less at R1 and even less (minimal but not off) at R2.

 

[BlueBird]

When I am not driving my CT5 BW I sometimes think, "Man...a Honda Accord Hybrid is really the right car. All I do is sit in traffic." Or, "My wife's EV is so smooth and fast. Maybe I should get in on that."

But then I drive my car. The sounds, the shifting, the feeling of being in a big car with a bunch of power...feels special. There are lots of other cars out there, but very few that can achieve "legendary" status. I think the 5BW is well on the way to being there with all the right ingredients in place.

 

[njech7]

He doesn’t like turbos. All of them. Which is why I wonder how an F or G80 M3 could solve that…?

Then no 911 Turbo then either!!!

 

[Finally-a-V]

I have so much to say, but I don't know where to start, so I won't other than.....sell, sell, sell

 

[jbawden]

You said Charger Hellcat is out because of the lack of a manual? I'm manual or bust too, but there is a LOT more wrong with the hellcat than the lack of a manual. This is a good clue that you're not in the right car.

 

[thefleshrocket]

I haven't driven a Charger Hellcat, so there could certainly be more wrong with it than just the lack of three pedals. I do know that it's reputed to be a fat pig of a car so it probably wouldn't satisfy me either.

So, yeah, I don't like turbos, but I do like 911s and the only way to get serious power is with a couple of snails (not including the oddball aftermarket centrifugal blower kits, which I have considered, but which cost ~$15K after install and apparently add very little to the resale value of a base 911). So in the case of the ass-engined Nazi slotcar (as it was called by one of Car & Driver's scribes many decades ago), I'd make an exception to my no-turbos policy.

I do plan to do Spring Mountain--I need to pick a time and sign up for it. Is it spouse-friendly, or will my wife be bored the whole time?

 

[BlueBird]

I haven't driven a Charger Hellcat, so there could certainly be more wrong with it than just the lack of three pedals. I do know that it's reputed to be a fat pig of a car so it probably wouldn't satisfy me either.

So, yeah, I don't like turbos, but I do like 911s and the only way to get serious power is with a couple of snails (not including the oddball aftermarket centrifugal blower kits, which I have considered, but which cost ~$15K after install and apparently add very little to the resale value of a base 911). So in the case of the ass-engined Nazi slotcar (as it was called by one of Car & Driver's scribes many decades ago), I'd make an exception to my no-turbos policy.

I do plan to do Spring Mountain--I need to pick a time and sign up for it. Is it spouse-friendly, or will my wife be bored the whole time?

I took my wife with me. She was a little bored to be honest. She enjoyed the ride-a-longs, but there weren't enough of those. She wished they had driven her around more. There is a pool but there needs to be two people for use for safety (or so says the sign at least). The lake (one thing she may have liked) is gone now. She could do some gambling at a Casino while you're in class maybe?

 

[565565]

The M5 and Charger Hellcat are out because no manual transmissions. The 4BW is out because no turbos. Which, I guess takes the F80 M3 out of the running, too. Absolutely nothing electric.

Gordan Murray T.50 is the obvious choice then.

Well that was easy.

 

[Jack Tors]

Actually it's really common for owners of the 5VBW to be disappointed with the vehicle. That's why they lose up to 50% of their resale value in the first year. I'd be happy to take it off your hands and continue your suffering as a gesture of kindness.

 

[dribs15]

Actually it's really common for owners of the 5VBW to be disappointed with the vehicle. That's why they lose up to 50% of their resale value in the first year. I'd be happy to take it off your hands and continue your suffering as a gesture of kindness.

 

[GTANotch88]

In regards to the parking brake... Dont push the button to release it. Just go. It disengages automatically.

 

[CBH]

You are spot on about high gear in the manual. If you are that serious about it, get the 6th gear (or more likely swap the entire tranny) from the ZL1 1LE. It's perfect - still 2K RPM at just 60 MPH. But I think its too short to top 200 MPH - you'd redline first. Its great in town, but on the open road, the Caddy's taller gear can also be nice.

Others noted the "lack" of exciting power is because its strong everywhere. I saw a stock dyno chart where the torque "curve" is a straight line from under 3K to redline - its always at max torque.

Everything else should be very easy to overlook - especially when you hear that non-turbo V8 and shift your own gears in a brand new car.

 

[Dmkp621]

If you want the traction/stability control to let you drift just a little bit but not too much,

This is exactly what the PTM modes allow you to do.

On the track at SM, twice I was sideways enough to think a spin was inevitable but the PTM saved my butt. This was PTM Sport. It was super fun! And it highlighted something I needed to learn about how to drive the car at speed on a track.

 

[raptor5244]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Regarding the traction control settings, I assume that each more-aggressive setting allows more slip angle than one below it, so Race 2 should be the best for getting sideways while still having some sort of safety net. Is that an accurate assumption?

The M5 and Charger Hellcat are out because no manual transmissions. The 4BW is out because no turbos. Which, I guess takes the F80 M3 out of the running, too. Absolutely nothing electric. No, I didn't test drive anything else--the 5BW was expected to be my fleet's unicorn halo car. Which it is.

Gas goes on the company credit card, so not a concern. Though along those lines, I wish the 5BW had a bigger tank to offset my heavy foot. It seems like it's in need of a fill-up every couple days despite mostly driving around town.

Probably a lot of why the 5BW doesn't feel as quick as it is, is because the powerband is so broad. It feels like it pulls almost as hard at 3000rpm as it does at 6000. My Mustang Cobra makes more horsepower than torque so there is some extra urge at the top of the tach that makes it more rewarding to run it up that high. Maybe I just need to do that $11K blower / tune upgrade that was posted a few weeks ago. 771whp, IIRC.

Regarding the M6 gearing...as you have figured out already it is very tall. 60mph in 1st, 84mph in 2nd, 113mph in 3rd... The LT4 in the ZL1, C7 Z06 and 5BW uses these tall gears in the Tremec TR6060 to handle all the torque. The LT1 based Camaros, C7 Corvettes and the LF4 4BWs use shorter ratios, so while they are down on power vs. the LT4 they don't really feel like it until you start doing highway pulls at 80mph+.

I traded a 2021 ZL1 for a 4BW M6 and like it much better for driving around town. It is plenty quick and doesn't feel like it has a turbo lag, in fact it feels like it is naturally aspirated to me. It also feels much smaller and lighter than it is, which makes it fun to toss around.

As for the traction control, as others have mentioned, the alpha chassis is excellent and the car puts the power down in both the ZL1 and 5BW. The E-diff programming is what keeps you from kicking out the rear. In the default settings, it will pull power quite a bit but if you start messing with the PTM modes it will be more aggressive and let you slide the rear out until the yaw sensor kicks in and saves you. You could also turn off all the nannies but I would not recommend it public roads. The LT4 Tremec 6060 gearing is great on a road course where you can let it stretch its legs.
It is a great car, just hard to fully enjoy on the street. Take it to the track and open it up and I think you will really like it.

 

[Neveready]

I don't understand

I got my CT5-V Blackwing 6MT in February. I ordered from Sewell in August 2021, and after being on a waiting list forever, they told me that I could have the car in 6 weeks if I omitted the CF1 package. Eventually I relented.

Mine is blaze orange (which is the best color, IMO) and has the bronze wheels, red seatbelts, PDR, sunroof, mid-range seats with white inserts, and the digital rear view mirror. I think that's it--I didn't do the fancy brakes or the CF1 or CF2.

Before my 5BW arrived, I coordinated to have full PPF done--I absolutely hate rock chips, and I had planned to track the 5BW, which is just asking for chips. I paid $6300 for the PPF job. The installer offered to tint the car for free, which I accepted. He did a good job laying the tint, but must have done it in a dirty environment because the rear glass's tint had a ton of specs.

I ordered a carbon fiber spoiler from Exhibitions of Speed. The PPF installer said he would PPF the spoiler and install it. When I dropped the 5BW off with him, I asked him to remove the tint, which he did in a passable fashion. For the spoiler, the installer did a shit job--the PPF had white specs under it, he used both the 1.5mm and 3mm tape which resulted in an abhorrent gap, and he only installed four of the six bolts.

So I am working on getting that resolved. I went to two shops today and they both told me that they thought they would damage the trunk PPF if they removed the spoiler to re-PPF it. I called the original installer and told him that I wanted him to schedule me ASAP, even if it involved reorganizing his schedule, and that I wanted the car back within 24 hours, not within a week or two as has been par for the course. I am waiting to hear back about him reorganizing his schedule.

All of this stuff has taken the sheen off of having the first brand new car I have ever bought, much less a unicorn like a 6MT 5BW. Now onto the things that I don't love about the 5BW.

--No adaptive headlights. My '11 and '15 Audi S4s have headlights that move right and left to follow the road at night. My 5BW does not.
--It's irritating how the trunk pops up with such force that you basically have to slam it shut to get it to stay closed.
--The 5BW just feels like a big car. It seems to take up soooo much space in my two-car garage. (A friend has a nearby warehouse where I shuffle a few other cars, but the 5BW has a permanent spot in my home garage because.. holy shit, it's worth about what my other four cars are worth put together. Probably a lot more.)
--The traction control is fucking stupid. Every one of the settings is some degree of wildly intrusive. The only other setting is "completely off", which is like "no condoms allowed" night at the brothel. I want to be midway through a corner in second gear and be able to roll on the throttle and exit with a moderate degree of sideways--reign me in if it seems like I'm going to pirouette the car, but otherwise, shut the fuck up and let me be.. This is wholly and completely impossible with even the most lax of traction control settings.
--I don't want to push the brake pedal to turn off the parking brake. I disabled this in my S4.
--668hp is.. kind of quick. But it's not earth-shattering. I would like 800hp without voiding my warranty, please.
--The seat feels narrow in the thighs (I am 6'4" and 215lbs). This is probably because I haven't figured out how to adjust the seat properly, but also, every time I have messed with the seat settings, I have seemed to make them worse.
--6th gear is like 7th gear. What I mean is 1st through 5th gears are pretty close ratios. Each time I shift, the next gear "feels" like it's at the right RPM. But when I go from 5th to 6th, the RPM drop is so huge, I feel like I'm going from 5th to 7th gear. I had two Fox body Mustangs back in the day and their transmissions were similar--1st through 4th would feel good, but 5th was such a huge drop in RPM that I never wanted to use it unless I was cruising on the interstate at high-ish speeds.
--More things I will think of when I drive the kids to school tomorrow morning.

My other cars are:
--'94 Chevy Caprice wagon. It's black cherry, has a high-stall converter, 20" Boss 338s, dark tinted windows, a big cam, and is basically a modern muscle car. Keeping this thing forever.
--'02 Porsche 911 cabrio. Silver (cliched) but Boxter red interior. Mostly stock. 6MT, exhaust mods, sounds great. Wouldn't mind replacing it with a 996 turbo if funds and availability line up.
--'03 Mustang Cobra convertible. 613rwhp. Slightly quicker than the 5BW in a straight line. Still working on mods so I can roadcourse it.
--'11 Audi S4 6MT. This is the benchmark against which the 5BW might fall short. This car is modded to about 500 crank horsepower. It just "feels" right. I had a comparably-modded '15 S4 and sold it in August 2021 to buy an '09 CTS-V. I regretted that choice instantly, put the V up for sale, and put in the order for my current 5BW. The S4 is the "right" size. It handles really well, and the 3L V6 is really punchy. And it's 12 years old with its share of blemishes so I don't worry about what I might park it next to. If something breaks, I don't mind throwing money at it because it's just a really great car.

The one time I really enjoyed the 5BW was when I was on a backroad and I dialed it up to about eight 10ths. The car felt really good at that pace, and I feel like I would enjoy at at the roadcourse. I'm not ready to post the for-sale tag yet--maybe I need to thoroughly whup the laptimes that I've posted with my 911 and S4 to feel like the 5BW has earned its place. On the other hand, I wonder if I shouldn't try out an F80 M3 with the 6MT. But along those lines, I think a 4BW might be the perfect sedan if it came with the supercharged 6.2L--it is very close to S4 sized but.. I am not afraid to admit that I do not love turbos. Give me supercharged or normally aspirated--screw turbos.

This has been a lot of typing and mostly to just get my thoughts on "paper". All feedback is encouraged. Am I a spoiled elitist pigdog? First world problems? Or just a jaded old codger?

What is the intention of this thread, or is this just your critique similar to the thread What "don't" you like about your BW"?

My first thoughts after reading this was what 4 door sports sedan under $110k in this class do you feel would be a comparable or a superior alternative encompassing all aspects of performance to a 5BW new or used?

Also, what do you suspect your critique would be regarding those vehicles?

 

[Badillac]

Yeah, to be honest, you sound like a whiny brat . Gratitude brings happiness and contentment. Most of us here are willing to overlook the small petty things (ex: the trunk closing) b/c we're grateful to have this car w/ all it does have, especially to have it available to us at this day and age, and for the price. In the ideal world, everything would be perfect.... but here in reality, you'll have to pay $$$$ to meet your uncompromising list of wants. Also seems like you didn't do much research before buying & even after owning. If you can't appreciate the car as a whole, not for you. Good luck finding what you like.

 

[GT325]

I think if you get the car in the correct PTM mode your opinion will drastically change. Try sport or dry ptm mode BUT you have to get it so that the traction control and stability control “off” yellow lights are on the dash. Even though it says it’s off it really isn’t completely off. But you have to be in this mode to get the slip that you want. I have my v mode set to dry and when I single press the v mode button I get an alert on the dash to press it again to turn off the traction and stability control. I press it a second time and the two yellow lights are on the dash and that is the “right” mode.

It’s a completely different car in these PTM modes. The 5 BW 6MT is a blast to drive.

 

[rubberduck]

I recommend the OP try competitive driving mode and report back the results after a few days of driving.