2025 CT4V Blackwing?

[Grainofsand]

My car started sounding a bit louder/deeper after a few k miles. Also makes booming noises when I let off the throttle and when it shifts. A10

 

[Roadhawk]

My car started sounding a bit louder/deeper after a few k miles. Also makes booming noises when I let off the throttle and when it shifts. A10

For some reason I think the automatic sounds better than the manual...a bit more raucous. Maybe it has something to do with the shorter gearing....don't know really but to me it does. Mine seems quieter (from the inside at least) to many I hear on the videos.

 

[dinkman]

FWIW, some perspective as someone who was coming from a C7 Grand Sport and Camaro ZL1, I was hesitant at first about purchasing the 4BW with the LF4 TT V6. The 4BW had all the things I was looking for including improved driving position, visibility, more practical, improved interior, etc. but I was not overly excited about the powertrain, especially since I was coming from a ZL1. I traded the ZL1 anyway for it and so far it has been great and I will say it does sound pretty good for a V6, especially outside the car.

It is well rounded and checks the most boxes for me. Sure, I would like it if were a bit more raw and visceral with added vibration and soundtrack of a V8 or maybe if it could rev a bit higher but the experience is still very good with the Tremec M6.

That said, if there was no Tremec M6 option I would have passed. IMO, the Tremec M6 is a huge part of the driving enjoyment of this car. The M6, great clutch and quick throttle response married to this nimble chassis keeps me satisfied with the purchase.

this sounds to me like you've made peace with the engine because other factors of the car have made up for it lol
maybe that worked for you but I just fear I wont be able to get over it no matter how great the rest of the car is

 

[rubberduck]

Based on my findings the LF4 fully dressed is somewhere around 450lbs and the LT1 is 465lbs so not a huge difference but if you listen to the discussion with the chief engineer starting at 4:50 below you will see the made a conscious choice with TT V6 over the V8 back during ATS-V development for many of the reasons you listed.

That said, the V8 may be less refined but it would add some character that would differentiate it in the segment rather than just following the rest of the sports sedan crowd. Furthermore, you would think it would cost less to use a V8 that was used in Camaros, Corvettes, Silverados vs. a specific engine only this trim.

LF4 is great but as you see in the thread there are a fair amount of folks that would choose a NA V8 in a Blackwing trim. Refinement is fine and all but some want a more raw sports sedan. The 5BW has a monster LT4 V8 and it is refined...

I think when he was talking about refined the context was in the balance, steering, and handling, not the engine sound.

The “would a NA V8 fit” response lacks sufficient enumeration of the impacts of design, cost, and schedule. It’s like saying could you put 37s on the car. The answer is yes, but…

 

[raptor5244]

For some reason I think the automatic sounds better than the manual...a bit more raucous. Maybe it has something to do with the shorter gearing....don't know really but to me it does. Mine seems quieter (from the inside at least) to many I hear on the videos.

Yeah, with the A10 you are probably hearing the additional snaps from the upshifts from the tightly spaced gears. The M6 usually makes more raucous on the over runs as you hold it in gear while decelerating especially when the exhaust setting is in Track Mode. You can do the same with the A10 but you need to be in manual mode with the paddles to get the overrun snap, crackle and pop. I find Sport Mode exhaust setting to be a nice amount of burbles without a constant barrage of them on every downshift.

One thing I really like about the LF4 over the LT1 and LT4s that I had is how quickly it revs and the overall throttle response. I don't know if this is a simple byproduct of a V6 vs. V8 or if those titanium connecting rods we have in M6 cars, a lighter flywheel or what but it is noticeably more responsive than the larger displacement V8s and I like it.

 

[raptor5244]

this sounds to me like you've made peace with the engine because other factors of the car have made up for it lol
maybe that worked for you but I just fear I wont be able to get over it no matter how great the rest of the car is

This true but the LF4 has exceeded my expectations and has really grown on me. From a performance perspective I think you will be more than satisfied with the LF4. It has very little turbo lag, in fact the engine "feels" like it is naturally aspirated to me. It is just missing some of those deeper bass note exhaust pulses and the extra vibration you get from a V8.

So, while the V8 tends to invoke more emotion for me, the TT V6 actually feels like a really good fit for this car and I now get why they selected it, especially considering the Cadillac brand and its typical customer. The engine revs out nice and quick and is much smoother than the V8s I have owned. It also responds very well to performance upgrades if you ever desire more power. I don't, I learned my lesson with the ZL1 and found that there is a limit to what you can enjoy on the street.

If you are looking for a very well balanced sports sedan that is fun to drive I really feel this is the best one available, especially if you prefer to row your own gears. I am going on two years with this car I still have no interest in anything else out there. It is pretty much the ultimate fun and practical daily driver with very few compromises (small back seat ).

 

[raptor5244]

I think when he was talking about refined the context was in the balance, steering, and handling, not the engine sound.

The “would a NA V8 fit” response lacks sufficient enumeration of the impacts of design, cost, and schedule. It’s like saying could you put 37s on the car. The answer is yes, but…

Good point. I am a big fan of this 4BW. The only car I found that is more fun to drive on the street is a Mazda Miata but you have to make a ton of compromises for that street legal go-kart, including being able to fit in one.

 

[minn19]

While very entertaining to read the back and forth here, GM is going to do absolutely nothing in regards to the power and definitely not going to do an engine change on the 4VBW. 8-9 years of zero changes in that department with the Camaro has made that abundantly clear.

But, continue, it is truly entertaining to read and both sides have great points!

 

[raptor5244]

While very entertaining to read the back and forth here, GM is going to do absolutely nothing in regards to the power and definitely not going to do an engine change on the 4VBW. 8-9 years of zero changes in that department with the Camaro has made that abundantly clear.

But, continue, it is truly entertaining to read and both sides have great points!

Yep, not enough sales to justify it. This is US based CT4 sales, how many Blackwings you think are in there 25%-30%?

They sell three times as many Camaros in the US and they killed that off.

CT5 US sales for comparison

 

[drkchai]

NA V8 I feel would be a step back for the 4BW. Unless it's the new Z06 engine lol

as a lt6 owner looking to get into a BW for the stick and practicality, this would be a dream combo.

 

[lunarx]

Good point. I am a big fan of this 4BW. The only car I found that is more fun to drive on the street is a Mazda Miata but you have to make a ton of compromises for that street legal go-kart, including being able to fit in one.

I’m with you, except I’d switch Mazda Miata for Mazda RX-8.
I mostly wish the LF4 could rev more.
If it had a 7.2K redline (like the M4) that would be epic.

 

[savethemanual]

Its interesting how people who have owned V8s in the past and own the CT4 V blackwing now are saying that they don't miss the V8 and the people who owned neither and have no intention of owning the CT4 are the ones complaining.

I owned a 2017 camaro SS. I can't imagine the LT1 v8 working well in the blackwing, its too rough and would not fit the character of this car. Apart from exhaust noise(which is subjective anyway) there is not one single place I have thought I would rather have the LT1.

People also tend to romanticize the LT1- its not like its some free revving engine from the gods- its great but it does have a low redline and does not really sound all that great(especially compared to a coyote or the voodoo)

 

[drkchai]

Its interesting how people who have owned V8s in the past and own the CT4 V blackwing now are saying that they don't miss the V8 and the people who owned neither and have no intention of owning the CT4 are the ones complaining.

I owned a 2017 camaro SS. I can't imagine the LT1 v8 working well in the blackwing, its too rough and would not fit the character of this car. Apart from exhaust noise(which is subjective anyway) there is not one single place I have thought I would rather have the LT1.

People also tend to romanticize the LT1- its not like its some free revving engine from the gods- its great but it does have a low redline and does not really sound all that great(especially compared to a coyote or the voodoo)

agree on the lt1 vs coyote. ct4bw with dark horse powertrain (tr3160 short gearing) would be an amazing combo.

 

[raptor5244]

Its interesting how people who have owned V8s in the past and own the CT4 V blackwing now are saying that they don't miss the V8 and the people who owned neither and have no intention of owning the CT4 are the ones complaining.

I owned a 2017 camaro SS. I can't imagine the LT1 v8 working well in the blackwing, its too rough and would not fit the character of this car. Apart from exhaust noise(which is subjective anyway) there is not one single place I have thought I would rather have the LT1.

People also tend to romanticize the LT1- its not like its some free revving engine from the gods- its great but it does have a low redline and does not really sound all that great(especially compared to a coyote or the voodoo)

Yeah, other than a pretty boring Lexus IS 350 this is my first 6 cylinder sports sedan and first turbocharged engine. I consider myself converted to the LF4 at this point. I also own a Telsa, which has changed my whole perspective on automatic transmissions. They feel archaic when compared to an EV with instant torque and no need to wait on shifts.

As for sound, I am a sucker for it because of how you can play with the exhaust note when paired with a manual transmission. I agree, compared to the Mustangs and Hellcats the LT1/LT4 V8 exhaust note is just ok. I am not a big fan of the Mustang but they do sound really good. May favorite v8 so far was the C6 Z06 LS7 engine, 505hp NA with 7k redline.

 

[raptor5244]

agree on the lt1 vs coyote. ct4bw with dark horse powertrain (tr3160 short gearing) would be an amazing combo.

Yeah, that would be fun but the engine is way too big with 5.0L displacement and overhead cams.

The new formula for regulations is big power of out a smaller package, which means turbos. Now if they can reduce the weight of the car as well, now we are talking. Imagine if the 4BW was 3,200lbs instead of 3,800lbs. It would be one wild ride. I miss my C5 Z06. I did heads, mild cam and long tubes, which brought it up from 405hp to about 500hp at the crank. The only lightweight vehicle made anymore is a Miata at 2,300lbs.

 

[Grainofsand]

Its interesting how people who have owned V8s in the past and own the CT4 V blackwing now are saying that they don't miss the V8 and the people who owned neither and have no intention of owning the CT4 are the ones complaining.

I owned a 2017 camaro SS. I can't imagine the LT1 v8 working well in the blackwing, its too rough and would not fit the character of this car. Apart from exhaust noise(which is subjective anyway) there is not one single place I have thought I would rather have the LT1.

People also tend to romanticize the LT1- its not like its some free revving engine from the gods- its great but it does have a low redline and does not really sound all that great(especially compared to a coyote or the voodoo)

This just reminded me of how soulless the LT1 felt and sounded. It felt like a super generic motor made just to fill a spot.

 

[raptor5244]

This just reminded me of how soulless the LT1 felt and sounded. It felt like a super generic motor made just to fill a spot.

All the AFM, DFM, garbage they put in these things just made them more complex and less reliable.

 

[rubberduck]

All the AFM, DFM, garbage they put in these things just made them more complex and less reliable.

You can thank the feds for that. Make sure to vote in November.

 

[albertw]

Yesterday Car and Driver posted a test of the 2023 CT4 on its website and had this to say about the 2025 refresh: "The bigger CT5's mid-cycle redo is already public, and it's believed that the CT4 isn't far behind."

Several months ago they posted that the CT4 likely would end with the 2024 model, so this seems to be based on new information.

 

[raptor5244]

Yesterday Car and Driver posted a test of the 2023 CT4 on its website and had this to say about the 2025 refresh: "The bigger CT5's mid-cycle redo is already public, and it's believed that the CT4 isn't far behind."

Several months ago they posted that the CT4 likely would end with the 2024 model, so this seems to be based on new information.

If that happens more than likely it will get that new instrument cluster design that GM is putting in everything. I wouldn't expect much more. Maybe some new wheel and paint color options? The car isn't selling well, spending more money on it will not increase sales at this point.