Scaroline
Active Member
Has anyone used redline D4 ATF for the manual transmission in the blackwings? I'm considering this for using the car in a cold climate to eliminate the notchy shifting. I don't plan on taking it to the track at all.
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Not sure if "notchy" is the right word (english is not my first language). I meant that the transmission doesn't go into 2nd very easily. The issue is more apparent when its colder however its never really "buttery" smooth even when warm unless I upshift above 3500 rpm or downshift so the revs in second are above 3000 rpm. I do make sure to push the clutch all the way down and have never developed the habit of pressing it partially and changing gears.First and foremost, notchy shifting is NOT caused by transmission fluid. It's caused by two things:
If you look at the GM hydraulic system specs, there is barely any margin in the amount of volume that a 3/4" diameter master cylinder has to generate the travel in the slave cylinder necessary to fully disengage the clutch. That's why all my V's eventually get 13/16" masters, which move more volume at the cost of higher pedal effort. Not only can I be sloppier in my clutch pedal actuation, I can go longer periods between bleeds.
- Failure to get the clutch pedal all the way down, especially on the 1-2 shift where you're getting thrown back and forwards in your seat.
- Air in the hydraulic system.
The two most common terms are "notchy" and "crunchy." On the internet, many people are imprecise with their word choice, but it's also common for both things to happen at the same time, because they're rooted in the same cause.Not sure if "notchy" is the right word (english is not my first language). I meant that the transmission doesn't go into 2nd very easily. The issue is more apparent when its colder however its never really "buttery" smooth even when warm unless I upshift above 3500 rpm or downshift so the revs in second are above 3000 rpm. I do make sure to push the clutch all the way down and have never developed the habit of pressing it partially and changing gears.
I only have a problem going into 2nd (upshift and downshift). Sometimes it only goes into 1st halfway but I nudged it a little harder than usual and it seems fine. All others seem relatively fine, albeit I have not shifting extremely fast. I have not bled the clutch since I was under the impression that it only needed to be done later on after driving many miles. The car has currently has about 1250 miles.The two most common terms are "notchy" and "crunchy." On the internet, people are imprecise with their word choice, but it's also common for both things to happen at the same time, because they're rooted in the same cause.
Let's get a couple of things out of the way:
- If the clutch is partially disengaged when you shift, the synchros have to work harder than normal, resulting in notchy shifting and possibly a crunch if you're manhandling the shifter.
Most people think they're above average drivers and won't consider the possibility that they need to work on their fundamentals. If you've bled your clutch and you're sure your foot is getting all the way to the floor when you shift, then it's time to start looking at mechanical root causes.
- If you're having problems shifting 1-2, it's probably your technique.
- If you're having problems shifting into first or reverse, your clutch probably needs to be bled.
Even if you say you've bled the clutch, it's still #1 on my list of suspects, because most people don't know how to properly bleed, and I've fielded tons of phone calls over the years from people that were bleeding incorrectly. Once I corrected their technique the problem went away.
That being said, if you want to improve the capability of the synchros use 3 qts D4 ATF + 1 qt 75W80 MTL (start with ATF, and add MTL second--you will only get about 0.5 qt of MTL in before the fluid reaches the fill hole). Do not use straight ATF of any brand (Mobil 1 ATF, Valvoline, Redline, and AMSOIL, despite all claiming Dextron III compatibility they all shift much worse than OEM fluid and make the transmission sound like a rock grinder).
My recommendation: use OEM for daily-driven, D4 ATF + MTL for daily/street/track, and HP-MTF if you're circuit racing.
Is this your first car, or first car with a T-56 or TR-6060? If so, it's probably your shifting technique and/or the normal amount of effort required to shift into 2nd.I only have a problem going into 2nd (upshift and downshift). Sometimes it only goes into 1st halfway but I nudged it a little harder than usual and it seems fine. All others seem relatively fine, albeit I have not shifting extremely fast. I have not bled the clutch since I was under the impression that it only needed to be done later on after driving many miles. The car has currently has about 1250 miles.
This is my first tr6060. I have driven other manuals that were easier to engage gears in albeit they were not track oriented cars like the blackwings. Maybe I just need to be a bit more aggressive into 2nd.Is this your first car, or first car with a T-56 or TR-6060? If so, it's probably your shifting technique and/or the normal amount of effort required to shift into 2nd.
If you want to make it easier, better oil and a lighter clutch will both help. The clutch will change it a lot more than the oil will.
I have just over 8k miles on my 4 BW (purchased April 2023 and live in NJ) and have experienced the 1st -2nd shift symptoms discussed here since the beginning. It is most pronounced with the 1st shift out of the driveway and improves from there. In sub 30's weather, the 1st shift can sometimes be an outright struggle to get into 2nd. In warmer weather it is minimal to unnoticeable. I have asked the dealership to assess twice but both times they said no issues noticed. Though I don't believe they've driven it from a true cold conditions scenario.A “notchy” or more difficult 1-2 shift is common feedback on this platform, and something I have experienced as well.
For me personally, my issue got better after my car got broken in and it’s much better when the car is warmed up. It’s also improved as the weather has gotten warmer.
While I appreciate that BKC1 has far more technical knowledge than I do about the trans, I don’t know that this is “user error” given the collective feedback and experiences of others with this same issue.
I can’t answer the OPs original question, but wanted to call out that this is common feedback. I have been driving manual for 17 years and the 1-2 shift has been more noticeable on this platform than any other manual vehicle I have owned. All other gears shift extremely mechanical and smooth, and again the issue goes away once the trans is warmed up.