Dealers That Are Not Charging Above MSRP

[BimmerFan]

When I was shopping for my M4 last year, it was the same kind of thing - trying to find a limited production car in a manual transmission for MSRP or better. A Delaware dealer (huh, what a coinkydink) had one for $5K over, after a few phone calls we got to "maybe we can do MSRP, why don't you come in?" Presuming, I suppose, that only a "sincere" buyer would come in person. I pointed out to them that I was in NC, and I wasn't traveling up there on a "maybe".

Yes, it is a personal decision as to the whole YOLO and how much patience we have, but that's not really this point of this thread, is it? FWIW, I was able to find a new M4 manual and bought it from a Ohio dealer for a 4% discount. So I guess I was a sincere buyer after all? LOL.

FWIW, I bought the BW remotely from Novi, all over the phone and emails, and not once did he ask me if I was sincere.

 

[Blackwing Bill]

“The best part about this post is I am glad to say we are finally sponsors on the forum.

I am very familiar after spending 10 years of my life selling Corvettes and being deeply integrated in the Corvette community and the Corvette forums about how these things tend to go.

I specifically asked Bill to type Sincerely in all caps + bold. We have enthusiastically sold brand new Cadillacs to more than 36 or so of the beautiful 50 states including but not limited to Alaska, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, of course Delaware, Maryland, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey & more -

Anyone that calls in or shows up and says they want to inquire about a car or move forward with the purchase or lease of a car or has questions about a car, we will always treat with dignity & respect and treat them with a priority as a “real” customer.

Pricing is always subject to criticism regardless of what we are willing to do. We have sold & ordered many Blackwings. Bill and I are personally involved with 95% of our Blackwing clients from front to back. We have stayed in line with pricing based on market demand + availability, especially when it comes to constraints & limitations, we truly understand the ordering process.

Today we are delivering a brand new 23 exactly 1 year from the date the deposit was taken due to carbon fiber, factory delays and the ungodly logistics issues when it comes to shipping. We take pride in our approach with each of our customers and again will always be fair. Anyone on here can bash us for any of the pricing or the way we type SINCERE, but I sincerely meant for anyone that wants to buy a car that we have in stock, I have an objective to hit and a good number of Blackwings to move. Make the call, it will be worthwhile, but if you are simply here to comment negatively on what we are offering then know we appreciate your feedback good or bad.

We are glad to be on here officially. Please be nice to Bill. He has been a member for a while and encouraged us to sign up. He is also in fact a Blackwing owner.

We will always do all we can to work with anyone to help with their purchase or lease experience even if it is to just ask questions about the process or options.”

Thank you sincerely,

Harry

Harry Boyer
Cadillac Manager
Delaware Cadillac

 

[rubberduck]

 

[Tall Steve]

#blackwingking @1StunnaV #idriveasewell

 

[Tall Steve]

“The best part about this post is I am glad to say we are finally sponsors on the forum.

I am very familiar after spending 10 years of my life selling Corvettes and being deeply integrated in the Corvette community and the Corvette forums about how these things tend to go.

I specifically asked Bill to type Sincerely in all caps + bold. We have enthusiastically sold brand new Cadillacs to more than 36 or so of the beautiful 50 states including but not limited to Alaska, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, of course Delaware, Maryland, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey & more -

Anyone that calls in or shows up and says they want to inquire about a car or move forward with the purchase or lease of a car or has questions about a car, we will always treat with dignity & respect and treat them with a priority as a “real” customer.

Pricing is always subject to criticism regardless of what we are willing to do. We have sold & ordered many Blackwings. Bill and I are personally involved with 95% of our Blackwing clients from front to back. We have stayed in line with pricing based on market demand + availability, especially when it comes to constraints & limitations, we truly understand the ordering process.

Today we are delivering a brand new 23 exactly 1 year from the date the deposit was taken due to carbon fiber, factory delays and the ungodly logistics issues when it comes to shipping. We take pride in our approach with each of our customers and again will always be fair. Anyone on here can bash us for any of the pricing or the way we type SINCERE, but I sincerely meant for anyone that wants to buy a car that we have in stock, I have an objective to hit and a good number of Blackwings to move. Make the call, it will be worthwhile, but if you are simply here to comment negatively on what we are offering then know we appreciate your feedback good or bad.

We are glad to be on here officially. Please be nice to Bill. He has been a member for a while and encouraged us to sign up. He is also in fact a Blackwing owner.

We will always do all we can to work with anyone to help with their purchase or lease experience even if it is to just ask questions about the process or options.”

Thank you sincerely,

Harry

Harry Boyer
Cadillac Manager
Delaware Cadillac

With all due respect, of the cars I've purchased (50+) over the last 43 years with the exception of Sewell dealerships dignity and respect was not part of the deals because "most" dealers are in it to make maximum profit not life time customers, and I hope y'all are different but some guys say other wise...

I have never put a deposit down on any car I've ordered to include 3 V's, Corvette, Camaro, ect.....

Do you have a lot of inventory to move because of your "deals" or "pricing"? Is there truth in advertising?

I'm sorry if I come off like a "Richard Cranium" as I'm really a big lovable teddy bear kind of guy, LOL...

#IDRIVEASEWELL

 

[ViaDale]

Was tevin your finance guy? Cool dude. Not a fan of this dealer overall but I'm glad they hooked you up at MSRP with no surprises

Ken was my finance guy. Good dude as well.

 

[BimmerFan]

“The best part about this post is I am glad to say we are finally sponsors on the forum.

I am very familiar after spending 10 years of my life selling Corvettes and being deeply integrated in the Corvette community and the Corvette forums about how these things tend to go.

Again, thanks for sponsoring the forum. We all love free stuff and often forget that someone, somewhere, has to pay for it.

You bringing up Corvettes reminds me of when I was a Corvette shopper. My local choices are a few small locally owned stores that little to no Corvette inventory, few allocations, and would only sell at MSRP. The other choice was a Hendrick dealer, a huge Corvette seller with a large inventory but extremely aggressive pricing that could occasionally be negotiated down to something reasonable, but that was a real effort, a battle, and then you still have to deal with all of their extra b.s. So I ordered my fourth Corvette from McMulkin in NH, great pricing, no "doc fee" crap, and had it shipped to Raleigh, delivered locally for just a couple of hundred bucks. The fifth one came out of McMulkin inventory, again, great pricing, no doc fee, and I drove it home, saving me thousands from these predatory dealers locally. I'm willing to do that, many buyers are not (or are ignorant of the market). Of course, these days, the market is different and I don't know what the availability of the C8 is, but I don't care any more.

We are glad to be on here officially. Please be nice to Bill. He has been a member for a while and encouraged us to sign up. He is also in fact a Blackwing owner.

Thank you sincerely,

Harry

Harry Boyer
Cadillac Manager
Delaware Cadillac

I apologize on behalf of everyone who posted nasty things, myself included (if it was interpreted as nasty, not my intent) but I suggest that you put yourself on the other side of the desk, just for a moment. We are generally enthusiasts who buy these cars. We're not the typical Cadillac buyer. The buying experience for most of us has been very stressful, there are few cars available, dealers are gouging thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars out of us for the privilege of buying a car, and if it's not bad enough that we're paying $100K+ for a fancy Chevy, now you want to make even more money off of us with "market rates" ADP?

So yeah, you should expect a little pushback with comments like "sincere buyers". We are all very sincere, but we're also a bit butt-hurt.

 

[ukcats12]

Didn’t mean to start such fuss when I first criticized this dealer lol.

We have stayed in line with pricing based on market demand + availability

Based on my searches I highly disagree. You had the highest markup of any dealer I saw with the exception of one in Tampa wanting $50k over a Maverick Noir. Everyone else was at 2.5k to $20k. At $25k I didn’t even give you the time of day.

And unless you got a second manual wave 5BW, that one has been available a while and you’ve had to cut the markup from 25 to 15, so that’s not being in line with the market. The market says a manual 5BW at a high volume dealer will sell within days unless you’re trying to gouge the hell out of your customers.

For it’s worth, in a thread about MSRP, you still haven’t said you’d sell a 5BW at MSRP to forum members. Just that it would be “worthwhile” to give you a call. Forgive us if we’ve heard that before. To me hearing “it’ll be worthwhile” is just code for “come listen to a high pressure sales pitch while I explain to you why I’m doing you a favor only charging a $15k markup.”

I don’t want to continue piling on a sponsor so I’ll shut up now. I think everyone knows where I stand.

 

[Tall Steve]

Didn’t mean to start such fuss when I first criticized this dealer lol.


Based on my searches I highly disagree. You had the highest markup of any dealer I saw with the exception of one in Tampa wanting $50k over a Maverick Noir. Everyone else was at 2.5k to $20k. At $25k I didn’t even give you the time of day.

And unless you got a second manual wave 5BW, that one has been available a while and you’ve had to cut the markup from 25 to 15, so that’s not being in line with the market. The market says a manual 5BW at a high volume dealer will sell within days unless you’re trying to gouge the hell out of your customers.

For it’s worth, in a thread about MSRP, you still haven’t said you’d sell a 5BW at MSRP to forum members. Just that it would be “worthwhile” to give you a call. Forgive us if we’ve heard that before. To me hearing “it’ll be worthwhile” is just code for “come listen to a high pressure sales pitch while I explain to you why I’m doing you a favor only charging a $15k markup.”

I don’t want to continue piling on a sponsor so I’ll shut up now. I think everyone knows where I stand.

Sometimes the truth hurts! That's what my beautiful wife tells me anyway...

 

[ukcats12]

I also think it’s funny there’s a thread on this board warning people not to flip Blackwings, and then in the MSRP thread there’s dealer who is trying to sell a used Blackwing for $20k over MSRP.

 

[rubberduck]

For its worth, in a thread about MSRP, you still haven’t said you’d sell a 5BW at MSRP to forum members. Just that it would be “worthwhile” to give you a call. Forgive us if we’ve heard that before. To me hearing “it’ll be worthwhile” is just code for “come listen to a high pressure sales pitch while I explain to you why I’m doing you a favor only charging a $15k markup.”

Still not interested in “members only” pricing. That still means we’re willing to shaft you if you don’t belong to the “club.” How is that any better?

 

[ukcats12]

Still not interested in “members only” pricing. That still means we’re willing to shaft you if you don’t belong to the “club.” How is that any better?

Oh same here, it just seems like that's the absolute least they could do and they haven't even said that. It's still all just vague statements about things being "worthwhile" and being in line with the "market."

 

[RDATLTE]

Oh same here, it just seems like that's the absolute least they could do and they haven't even said that. It's still all just vague statements about things being "worthwhile" and being line with the "market."

But, sincerely so!

 

[Tall Steve]

 

[Matt27]

Probably the most united the forum has ever been.

No fights over A10/M6, PTM Modes, daily drivers/garage queens/EVs or fretting over resale value.

And plenty of GIFs from resident "Richard Cranium" @Tall Steve (his words, not mine).

Thanks Delaware Caddy! Making the forum a better place.

 

[Tall Steve]

Ok, the M6 is great but the A10 is awesome, #garagequeen , never going to sell the 5BW, 4BW probably at some point, I don't worry about the PTM, #fullsend , Ev's suck, IDK, who else can I offend?

Thank you @Matt27 I got the meme/Gif cannon out this morning, well, I get it out everyday.............

Richard Cranium in the house, aka Jack Mehoff also..............

 

[Tall Steve]

@Delaware Caddy, Sorry to @Blackwing Bill

 

[vj123]

“The best part about this post is I am glad to say we are finally sponsors on the forum.

I specifically asked Bill to type Sincerely in all caps + bold. We have enthusiastically sold brand new Cadillacs to more than 36 or so of the beautiful 50 states including but not limited to Alaska, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, of course Delaware, Maryland, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey & more -

Anyone that calls in or shows up and says they want to inquire about a car or move forward with the purchase or lease of a car or has questions about a car, we will always treat with dignity & respect and treat them with a priority as a “real” customer.

Pricing is always subject to criticism regardless of what we are willing to do. We have sold & ordered many Blackwings. Bill and I are personally involved with 95% of our Blackwing clients from front to back. We have stayed in line with pricing based on market demand + availability, especially when it comes to constraints & limitations, we truly understand the ordering process.

Glad that your dealership is a forum sponsor.

I have bought several vehicles out of state due to shenanigan from nearby dealers or other scenarios. One of my latest purchase was a BMW M3 in Jan 2022 when crazy ADM was normal and build allocations were extremely scarce. I bought it from a dealership without any price / finance rate markups or mandatory addons as listed in their webpage. I reached out to my CA based on the recommendation from the forum and I had no buying history with the dealership. I took factory delivery and never had to step into the dealership to express sincere interest. Based on my experience, I have referred several friends and forum members to my CA. So its not unreasonable for the members to share their views especially when you post in this thread.

As a final note, an active forum participant might / will be your REAL customer with SINCERE interest in the near future.

 

[ukcats12]

Based on my experience, I have referred several friends and forum members to my CA.

I’ve done the same with my dealer. I’ll say it again here too. King O’Rourke Cadillac on Long Island sells absolutely everything at MSRP, no questions asked and no negotiations needed. Ask for Howie.

 

[malakas]

“The best part about this post is I am glad to say we are finally sponsors on the forum.

I am very familiar after spending 10 years of my life selling Corvettes and being deeply integrated in the Corvette community and the Corvette forums about how these things tend to go.

I specifically asked Bill to type Sincerely in all caps + bold. We have enthusiastically sold brand new Cadillacs to more than 36 or so of the beautiful 50 states including but not limited to Alaska, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, of course Delaware, Maryland, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey & more -

Anyone that calls in or shows up and says they want to inquire about a car or move forward with the purchase or lease of a car or has questions about a car, we will always treat with dignity & respect and treat them with a priority as a “real” customer.

Pricing is always subject to criticism regardless of what we are willing to do. We have sold & ordered many Blackwings. Bill and I are personally involved with 95% of our Blackwing clients from front to back. We have stayed in line with pricing based on market demand + availability, especially when it comes to constraints & limitations, we truly understand the ordering process.

Today we are delivering a brand new 23 exactly 1 year from the date the deposit was taken due to carbon fiber, factory delays and the ungodly logistics issues when it comes to shipping. We take pride in our approach with each of our customers and again will always be fair. Anyone on here can bash us for any of the pricing or the way we type SINCERE, but I sincerely meant for anyone that wants to buy a car that we have in stock, I have an objective to hit and a good number of Blackwings to move. Make the call, it will be worthwhile, but if you are simply here to comment negatively on what we are offering then know we appreciate your feedback good or bad.

We are glad to be on here officially. Please be nice to Bill. He has been a member for a while and encouraged us to sign up. He is also in fact a Blackwing owner.

We will always do all we can to work with anyone to help with their purchase or lease experience even if it is to just ask questions about the process or options.”

Thank you sincerely,

Harry

Harry Boyer
Cadillac Manager
Delaware Cadillac

I doubt anyone on this forum would criticize a 5BW offered at MSRP. if you are able to get 25k over, and that is what you value, have at it but please don't post in the MSRP forum to do so. You might make a huge gross, or you might sit in wait for long time and lose allocations in the process. If you do achieve success, it may come at the cost of burning the customer from your dealership and possible the brand forever. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but that business practice doesn't sound great. Also, I don't understand why some buyers do pay that type of markup, when patience and discipline would avert it. Eventually every dealer will be MSRP or less on these cars. The markups on these cars have come down a lot recently, at dealers that are inclined to do so. At the point when all dealers concur MSRP is the max the market will bear, the people who actually paid 25k or 50k over due to lack of patience will be full of regret, and possibly anger. It's a situation that harms the long term viability of the brand practiced by a set retailers that had nothing to do with developing this car, just taking advantage of a short term situation and either not considering what the ethics and impacts of doing so are, or see the benefits of cashing in personally as outweighing the damage to the brand and future of their franchise. Again, being not the sharpest guy in the world, I don't understand why one would land on an ADM as the right call as a business practice. I personally vote with my feet when I see it, and do so even when what I want to buy isn't what I see with the ADM sticker on it. I just don't do business there.