Am I crazy?

[CBH]

One of the great things about the 5BW is that it's so much fun, yet it's also brand new and under warranty. A 30 year old Bimmer will be quite the opposite. It may be fun when you can keep it running, but being stranded ruins the honeymoon VERY quickly. I would imagine LOTS of time, effort and $$$ to replace everything needed to get it back to its prime will be in order as well.

I had re-built everything on my chopper but the engine - suspension at both ends, clutch, transmission, clutch cable - and it stranded me 3 of the last 4 times I took it out. That's when it had to go.............as much as I loved it, and as much fun as it was.

 

[green02crew]

I do think you’re slightly onto something. When a vehicle is too good, hard to describe really but it can be almost boring unless you’re really cranking on it. The 5BW isn’t really compromised in any way other than maybe trunk space. It does everything well and with such tall gears it just rips too easy. I had a charger hc and it was compromised; too low to the ground scraping on crowned driveways, infotainment that randomly crashed and rebooted while driving, crazy loud whine that non car people thought something was wrong with it. Unrefined and frankly not as drivable or reliable. But that’s what made it fun, if that makes sense. I have a whippled f150 and it’s the same way but with an insanely loud exhaust, keeps you entertained because it sounds like you’re doing sound barrier speeds at idle, helps that the factory limiter is intact so can barely go over 100, having fun but not going wild and you have to slow for corners, unlike the BW.

 

[Roadhawk]

I've had my Blackwing for almost two years now and it's the best all around car I've ever had. But I don't think it's the most fun car I've ever had. The tall gearing and instant speed makes it difficult to really enjoy it on the street. I don't really have the time (or quite frankly the skill) to spend any real time tracking the thing. I'm kind of struggling with the idea of this car being so perfect vs. the reality of not really getting to enjoy that idea to the fullest 99% of the time.

Is it crazy that I'm thinking of selling it and getting or importing a euro spec E36 M3 and really leaning into the "slow car fast" type of fun. I had a US spec E36 M3 and I still think it was the most fun I've had in a car on a public road. Steering and handling were a dream and going around a bend at just 30mph was fun.

I fully get it (even WRT my CT 4 V BW)....still it is a very fun car...just not the most fun car I've ever had (or still have). My BMW 330i ZHP has very similar performance to the US spec E36 M3 and its great fun to wail on even now. To some degree because its a lighter weight car with (great) hydraulic steering, decent SS MT, and perfect balance. Is it more fun then my 4 V BW....maybe yes...but no question the 4 BW beats it in every measurable way and is the "superior" car...

But my (highly modded) MK 6 GTI is even more fun. Its just as fast as the 4 V BW but more raucous and tossable. I always curse FWD but sometimes it can be a hoot. Spinning wheels through 5 gears also never gets old. I've also added much structural bracing, camber plates and proper lowering with Bilstein coilovers, stiffer sway bars and end links etc etc....actually oversteers on throttle which I didn't think possible with FWD. Too bad your GTI is not MT....otherwise modding it like I have might be your solution (and maybe still could be). My mechanic who recently spent some time with mine says he wants to get a MK 6 like mine now...

But in many ways the car I miss the most and which was my most "fun" car was my supercharged MR2...even more tossable and just well super sporty. Again to me - small and light is key and yes the ability to wail on it. Frankly I'd take a 2nd gen turbo MR2 over an E36 of any kind most days...though not a bad option (for fun) except for potential maintenance considerations. The Miata suggestion is also valid...and engine swaps and other upgrades are easily done.

I do frequently wail on the 4 BW and its great fun - but the extra weight and new tech are certainly drawbacks and I get how the 5 is just way too much car for public roads in many respects. Its also a larger car - and to me this is a negative. Don't get me wrong - fantastic car (as is the 4) and still very rewarding to drive....but for maximum smiles and giggles a smaller, more nimble fast car is hard to beat.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Not to start any 4v5 beefing here but that is the reason I ultimately went with the 4BW over the 5BW.

I was just about to say this. OP makes the exact same points as Jason Cammisa's review of the 5BW. Amazing car, but you only get 1, maybe 2 shifts before you are in lose-your-license territory. 4BW solves that to some extent.

 

[Sully]

Interesting perspective and now that I think about it, I share some of the frustrations... e.g. as mentioned, 1 maybe 2 shifts before a felony. It's like an itch I can't scratch with the 5BW, yet the reality is, the itch is/was scratched, I just want more and more though... speed drug addict I guess.

Unfortunately, there may be a shift in my future soon that will force me to unload some toys and the BW may be one of them.

 

[Finally-a-V]

Ahhhh, one of the beauties of living out here in Southern AZ with looong, mostly flat, straight back roads where you can drive without much concern about the law....or so I hear

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Unfortunately, there may be a shift in my future soon that will force me to unload some toys and the BW may be one of them.

 

[668LT4]

Everyone has different tastes. I found my 2022 M4 Competition xDrive to be exactly what the OP is describing - too perfect. And too perfect translates to boring to drive, at least that was how I felt about that particular BMW.

I preferred the exterior of that car (I like my Blackwing, but the M4 nose and hood are awesome to me, even if deplorable to most), I definitely preferred the interior of that car. Fit, finish, paint - all superior on the BMW, no questions asked. Performance? That car in auto and AWD will scorch my manual Blackwing on regular streets.

But I never smiled driving that car (or any other car) like I do my Blackwing. Every single time I drive my Caddy, it makes me happy. And yet the car is less than perfect in every area except one - driving enjoyment. Here, it is perfect... for my tastes.

I hope every person hones in on what is that car for them. It is a very satisfying feeling.

 

[Sully]

Everyone has different tastes. I found my 2022 M4 Competition xDrive to be exactly what the OP is describing - too perfect. And too perfect translates to boring to drive, at least that was how I felt about that particular BMW.

I preferred the exterior of that car (I like my Blackwing, but the M4 nose and hood are awesome to me, even if deplorable to most), I definitely preferred the interior of that car. Fit, finish, paint - all superior on the BMW, no questions asked. Performance? That car in auto and AWD will scorch my manual Blackwing on regular streets.

But I never smiled driving that car (or any other car) like I do my Blackwing. Every single time I drive my Caddy, it makes me happy. And yet the car is less than perfect in every area except one - driving enjoyment. Here, it is perfect... for my tastes.

I hope every person hones in on what is that car for them. It is a very satisfying feeling.

Very much agree with the smile and happiness. Like a giddy little kid for me.. that said, i find myself in a self-control conundrum when driving my 5BW. The acceleration, rowing gears letting the RPM peak, screaming SC, Corsa exhaust note… it’s only a matter of time before I catch a charge….

 

[+ManifoldPSI]

As fun as the older bmws can be, just make sure you’re ok going back to an older car like e36 M3…sometimes old memories are different than reality of driving a 30 year old car. Having said that, I do love that car especially the LTW variant.

I too agree with the 1+ car in the garage strategy if that's at all an option. The Blackwings no doubt are fantastic performers, but they come with added layers of, shall I call it, "insulation" between the driver and the experience over the older cars. I too cherish the feel and simplicity of the "older" cars- my '05 WRX STi and '05 330iZHP are much different driving experiences. Just as fun but in different ways even if nowhere near as fast. Same but even more to that last point with my '89 E30. Thinking about all of this really makes me want to get my S13 road-worthy again...

But, you gotta be ok with all that comes along with an older car. Just how it goes.

I don't know anything about the OP, but at least in my case, when I learned to trust the MR dampers this car got a lot more fun on tight and technical backroads at quite legal speeds.

Some reviewers like DWA claimed the 5BW was a 'sweepers car' where you can't get into a good rhythm on a tight backroad. That was definitely the first impression for me initially - feeling the length, weight, relative lack of feedback through the steering wheel, and the body roll (especially in the Tour setting, needed on our lumpy NorCal backroads).

What I've learned to appreciate is that even in Tour (maybe especially so for road driving) the dampers are pretty magic - on initial turn-in it'll feel like the car is much too soft, but boy does it firm up fast as you put more G-load into the car. Throw it into a corner and it adjusts, grips like hell and pivots out beautifully, with the added benefit of glorious V8 noises and savage acceleration on the way out. Is it mostly artificial magic done by computers, yes, but still pretty fun.

Thanks for pointing this out. I too, having just picked up my '25 6mt V8V 5VBW, am a bit apprehensive about really pushing this thing in the corners (on possibly the same lumpy, tight, technical NorCal backroads you drive) due to the mass of the car, lower ease of changing direction, less initial trust of all the electronics (e-diff in particular), etc vs anything I've had prior. Closest match in terms of weight and capability for me is my '15 Z/28. I also have not done Spring Mountain yet, I expect that will help, though that's more smooth and groomed tarmac vs what you'd find on any given street. But it's good to hear it does instill trust. That's a huge part of getting comfortable with an all around performance car.

 

[savethemanual]

Second the miata suggestion.
I hit the redline twice yesterday on a very short drive in my ND3 and I was just thinking how doing that in my blackwing would have meant losing my license. Rent one and see how it feels- its genuinely the most fun you can have in a new car at very reasonable speeds.

 

[Finally-a-V]

am a bit apprehensive about really pushing this thing in the corners (on possibly the same lumpy, tight, technical NorCal backroads you drive) due to the mass of the car, lower ease of changing direction, less initial trust of all the electronics (e-diff in particular)

IDK, I very much trust the car. I think that trust has saved my ass a few times. Take a curve a little to fast, or accelerate out a bit too early, not realize how sharp the curve is, and I've felt those nannies kick in. Granted, smooth asphalt, but I trust it. You'll just have to get used to it....and "normal to warm" tires please....not "cool". I think some guys get in trouble with cool tires.

 

[Roadhawk]

Everyone has different tastes. I found my 2022 M4 Competition xDrive to be exactly what the OP is describing - too perfect. And too perfect translates to boring to drive, at least that was how I felt about that particular BMW.

I preferred the exterior of that car (I like my Blackwing, but the M4 nose and hood are awesome to me, even if deplorable to most), I definitely preferred the interior of that car. Fit, finish, paint - all superior on the BMW, no questions asked. Performance? That car in auto and AWD will scorch my manual Blackwing on regular streets.

But I never smiled driving that car (or any other car) like I do my Blackwing. Every single time I drive my Caddy, it makes me happy. And yet the car is less than perfect in every area except one - driving enjoyment. Here, it is perfect... for my tastes.

I hope every person hones in on what is that car for them. It is a very satisfying feeling.

So true and I often find myself giving such advice to folks who express a desire for the highest performance car (on paper) with a prestige nameplate and such. I try to advise them to really consider how they get the most joy and satisfaction from a car and driving and maybe there are some better options for them to consider aside from a Hellcat or an M3 etc.

And of course a Miata is always the answer is it not? LOL

 

[1Evil55]

Has the OP driven a BW4 yet?

 

[+ManifoldPSI]

My BMW 330i ZHP has very similar performance to the US spec E36 M3 and its great fun to wail on even now. To some degree because its a lighter weight car with (great) hydraulic steering, decent SS MT, and perfect balance.

Is yours a 6spd 4dr? I just picked up my Imola red '05 sedan. I am looking forward to really getting to know it. Oddly enough, just before I bought it, I picked up an '05 330i 6spd non-ZHP. They are very close in condition and mileage, so I am keen to do a back-to-back comparo of the two and see where the differences really lie.

IDK, I very much trust the car. I think that trust has saved my ass a few times. Take a curve a little to fast, or accelerate out a bit too early, not realize how sharp the curve is, and I've felt those nannies kick in. Granted, smooth asphalt, but I trust it. You'll just have to get used to it....and "normal to warm" tires please....not "cool". I think some guys get in trouble with cool tires.

Fair point, yes, the electronics can intervene and save the driver from losing it. As much as that can be the case, I don't put as much trust in them as other people, as I don't always appreciate when they cut in, how they cut in, the transition and how much of an effect they have. I know this is adjustable in some respects (driving modes, disabling via buttons), and that I can likely turn most of it off, but I feel more comfortable pushing simpler cars harder, knowing that I really have to understand what I am doing and what I may need to do to correct a situation. But just as much, I know that I get a more un-interrupted driving experience, and that the car is a lot less likely to pull power or do anything unpredictable mid-maneuver.

That all being said, this is a big machine with the most power/weight I have owned, so I'll probably take a rather measured approach to turning off the nannies. Spring Mountain ought to be interesting.

And your last point is a good one. Easily overlooked by people. Especially in cooler weather. Even more poignant for me and my PSC2R tire choice.

 

[Roadhawk]

Is yours a 6spd 4dr? I just picked up my Imola red '05 sedan. I am looking forward to really getting to know it. Oddly enough, just before I bought it, I picked up an '05 330i 6spd non-ZHP. They are very close in condition and mileage, so I am keen to do a back-to-back comparo of the two and see where the differences really lie.

Yes its a 4 dr 6 speed MT. What a great - near perfect car. Compared to the standard 330i the ZHP package is more than just a sum of its parts. While its only 10hp? more it feels (and I think is) much quicker...it revs higher and quicker, steering and brakes are better. Its also lowered compared to the standard 330 and the suspension is much tighter.

When I was test driving the cars back to back when I eventually bought the ZHP new (did Euro delivery and put 1400 miles on it in 3 weeks) the differences were clear. The normal 330 seemed wallowy and slow in comparison. The ZHP still feels pretty tight and quick now (but suffers a bit compared to the 4 V BW) and its been close to problem free. Its a great free revving engine and I think you will enjoy it - I still do. Let us know.

Mine is totally stock. I've considered an LSD but frankly its not 100% necessary (but would be an improvement). The car is actually my wife's daily - but I drive it fairly often - maybe its got around 120K miles on it.

A bunch of years back a neighbor who was an SCCA autocross instructor invited me to come up and drive the course after class was over. I'd never autocrossed before but both the car and I impressed him. I did 2 serious runs and ended up with the 4th best time in an intermediate class of 23 or so drivers. He commented "you really know your car" and I told him that well it was my wife's car....lol

 

[dribs15]

I was just about to say this. OP makes the exact same points as Jason Cammisa's review of the 5BW. Amazing car, but you only get 1, maybe 2 shifts before you are in lose-your-license territory. 4BW solves that to some extent.

This is one of the few things that doesn't make me feel like a horrible person for having the A10 right now (.... although I fully expect @Throat Yogurt to make me feel horrible again)

 

[AC2024]

I have had a few cocktails so I’ll toss a molotov into this thread for good fun.

I saw the earlier post about Camissa. The part left out is that curmudgeon (and smoking tire) indicate the 4BW is the better car. They indicate that because it is.

I drove both. I “can afford” the 5. I bought the 4 because I think it is leagues better than the 5 as a driving machine. Anyone can mash throttle on a straight, in any gear, and go fast in a 5. The 4 requires some degree of work to extract power and has a FAR superior chassis.

 

[RDATLTE]

I have had a few cocktails so I’ll toss a molotov into this thread for good fun.

I saw the earlier post about Camissa. The part left out is that curmudgeon (and smoking tire) indicate the 4BW is the better car. They indicate that because it is.

I drove both. I “can afford” the 5. I bought the 4 because I think it is leagues better than the 5 as a driving machine. Anyone can mash throttle on a straight, in any gear, and go fast in a 5. The 4 requires some degree of work to extract power and has a FAR superior chassis.

Shots fired!

 

[CBH]

I have had a few cocktails [....].I bought the 4 because I think it is leagues better than the 5 as a driving machine. Anyone can mash throttle on a straight, in any gear, and go fast in a 5. The 4 requires some degree of work to extract power and has a FAR superior chassis.

Me too

V8 sound track vs. wheezed V6. 'nuff said...................

One instructor hot lap at SM should convince anyone that the big girl has THE moves.