Why choose a CT4 BW over a new BMW M3? Sincerely asking.

[TTc8HTC]

For the record, I am a GM V8 with a stickshift guy since the 1990s.
Love my stick shift SS Sedan daily driver and Corvettes, and am shopping for a CT5 BW with a stick.

With that said, with everything we all know about the new BMW M3 in the Summer of 2023, why would anyone choose a CT4 BW over the M3?
If you own a CT4 BW, why did you choose it over the M3?

I'm sincerely asking, and hope we all can have a polite and intelligent discussion in here.

 

[quikag]

Price, weight, nimble feel is better on the BW. Powertrain is superior on the M3, otherwise the 4BW is very competitive on other facets. Also, I prefer the styling of the BW to the gaping maw of the M3.

Reliability "may" favor Cadillac over BMW over time as well.

All that said, I'd personally probably take an M3 over a 4BW, but I have a 5BW and I definitely prefer that to any BMW currently being sold.

 

[RDATLTE]

Chassis and driving dynamics were the main reasons. Additional reasons were that I was able to get the BW for MSRP where the M3s were going for $10k over MSRP at the time. The M3s rear brake calipers were another reason.

 

[RancidSumo]

I cross shopped the two and went with the 4BW (I was not able to drive either before buying). For me it came down to (i) style - clear winner in this category is the BW, (ii) transmission - by all accounts the manual is better in the BW, (iii) feel - again, couldn't experience for myself but everything I saw/read caused me to believe the BW would be a better handling car. I also like buying American.

I came from an M5 so I have nothing against BMWs, but now a few months in I'm happy with my choice and glad I went for the BW. If shopping for an auto I'd go for the M3.

 

[Tall Steve]

 

[1Evil55]

We never run out of blinker fluid





















Sorry I can't help myself

 

[vj123]

I sold my G80 M3 after owning it for a brief period as it was too refined for my liking and the overall driver feel was a let down. Its a perfect vehicle for someone who needs a fast, luxurious DD. Also, iD8 is a big turn off for me and this was the only reason i rushed to order a MY22.

 

[rdollie]

I have a couple of BMWs including a M3 in addition to the 5BW. In my experience, the Blackwings are much better in auto or manual when it comes to engagement and an analog visceral experience. If you opt for a CS/CSL BMW, you'll get something faster on the street than the BW and almost as fast on a track but it's still lacking in experience and it will be so much more expensive. I feel BMW ICE cars are the better luxury choice compared to Blackwings and the Blackwings are the better driver's choice (when it comes to EVs, after spending some time in a Lyriq last week, I'd say Cadillac is about to turn the page on really compete/lead in luxury - especially in their price range.)

 

[savethemanual]

My blackwing out the door was 70k. A comparable m3 would be 85k.
Also if I was getting an m3 it won’t be the manual.

 

[Exia]

M3s are priced like 5BWs but are compared against 4BWs, so the single biggest reason is the price. A 4BW has a better manual then the M3, the M3 also drives very clinically.

If you care about the drive more then quality of the leather, you buy the 4BW and save 15k.

If you want just want a stick but care about the interior space more then the drive and are willing to spend that 15k, buy the M3.

However at M3 prices you can now buy a 5BW...

I'll state I owned one of the first '22 M3 Competition XDrive's. This car was good, insanely capable, blisteringly fast, full merino leather, it was a superb do it all sport sedan. However that was also why I got rid of it after 6 months, the car had no soul, to clinical, the driving experience was numb at best. BMW made an excellent car by the numbers, the materials, the ride comfort etc were all amazing but really fast automatic cars are a dime a dozen and they don't do anything for me long term.

 

[TTc8HTC]

Chassis and driving dynamics were the main reasons. Additional reasons were that I was able to get the BW for MSRP where the M3s were going for $10k over MSRP at the time. The M3s rear brake calipers were another reason.

What's the story with the M3 rear calipers?
Thanks

 

[Hugh Jassol]

I got the Blacking 4 over the M3 'cause I can't stand the looks of the Bimmer. That front end is one of the fugliest things I've ever seen on a car.

 

[RDATLTE]

What's the story with the M3 rear calipers?
Thanks

I believe that they're 2 piston and are not monoblock.

 

[Xpedite]

I can speak to this a bit. We drive electric things a lot of the time so the gas cars are for fun….. Assuming we are talking manual sports sedans, the M3 and the 4V Blackwing are your only choices (save the 5V) and are as direct of competitors as you can find. I am in love with the last gen M2 Comp but I use all my cars to shuttle kids around between hockey rinks so I figured I would have to get the M3 and I ordered one.

I think the both cars can look great. I’ve got no problem with the gaping grill and the Blackwing (only with the carbon ) looks mean as hell. The more I read and watched while I waited for an Isle of Man green M3, the more I thought maybe the Blackwing would be better to drive so I found a purportedly imminently inbound black carbon/manual 4V in TX at msrp last spring and put a deposit down. That wait stretched out, too, though, and I found a mega-specced Sao Paulo M3 with all the carbon options and blue interior with just a couple thousand miles on it for a great deal. (Like I low-balled them and they shockingly said ok.) I thought this car is so wild, I’ll deal with the shifter not being as crisp….

I cancelled the BW order and drove the M3 back across the country and over the weeks that followed I realized I didn’t love it, despite the heads it turned. It was damn near silent, the shifting was….fine at best but inconsequential. Those two things I could fix with some work but the longer wheelbase made it nothing like the can’t-go-straight M2 I loved. It was too stable, too competent, too polished, too fast, too numb. Fit and finish and materials were leagues above the Cadillac although I didn’t care for the current iDrive or the bizarro vertical tach. Still, I loved almost everything about the car except driving it. It’s a really good car, extraordinarily capable but not a ton of fun with the mediocre manual. So before I spent another $10k+ on aftermarket bits, I traded it in for what I had bought it for. I’d put only 4000 miles on it. I cancelled my M3 order (that I had shifted to an AWD Comp) and bought a Stelvio Quadrifoglio which makes wicked noise and is very fun to shift (for an auto).

I recently added a Mini JCW because I was still dying for a manual. The transmission in that is very good, way better than its distant BMW cousin. Yet I can’t keep my eye off of the 4V Blackwing listings…. I only drove one once. It was a stripper and I hated the base seats but the stick and the clutch and the chassis have stayed with me…..they were excellent.

 

[Matt27]

For the record, I am a GM V8 with a stickshift guy since the 1990s.
Love my stick shift SS Sedan daily driver and Corvettes, and am shopping for a CT5 BW with a stick.

With that said, with everything we all know about the new BMW M3 in the Summer of 2023, why would anyone choose a CT4 BW over the M3?
If you own a CT4 BW, why did you choose it over the M3?

I'm sincerely asking, and hope we all can have a polite and intelligent discussion in here.

Better manual transmission, better looking, and I absolutely cannot stand the gigantic, all-screen, no buttons interior.

The last one is the real deal breaker. I almost never have to interact with the touch screen on my car. I get in, it wirelessly connects to Android auto and starts playing whatever I was listening to. I'm 29, by the way, even though this is a very stereotypically "angry old man" take.

I just want buttons and knobs, damn it.

I should also add that I did an M Trackday with the G80/G82 and found them incredibly isolating. Fast as hell and brutally calculated, but isolating.

 

[quikag]

I got to flog a new M3 Comp X-drive with the ZF at COTA (F1 track in Austin) several months ago. It was very fast, very stable, made angry inline six noises, and overall was a blast to beat on around the track. Temps were high too outside, but car stayed cool. So, overall I was impressed. BUT, I wouldn't exactly call it nimble. Capable? Yes. Nimble? No.

I think it would be an awesome car to use as an executive express to/from work at the law firm or doctor office, especially up north where the X-drive could be helpful.

I also had a chance to drive a 3rd gen CTS-V and an ATS-V at COTA years before at a Performance V Lab or something like that which I signed up for. Liked the thrust of the CTS-V, but that ATS-V was FUN AS HELL at the autocross course and on the track.

I won fastest autocross lap time for the whole weekend and they said I was the first student to beat the instructor reference lap time too, so that was fun. I got a V water bottle as my prize. Anyway, the ATS-V was a corner carver for sure.

So, the Alpha II chassis in the 4BW is going to be way more fun and that manual transmission way better than the M3 manual. If those types of things matter to you, you want the 4BW. Being able to save cash is also a nice plus for many.

 

[Berserker]

I've never owned a German car. Had not owned an American car since the 1980s.

Practical Considerations

1) I just did not trust GERman engineering after decades of reading about stuff like Porsche IMS thing, and knowing multiple people with VAG products who had massive reliability headaches.

2) The 6-year, 70k mile powertrain warranty. After literally decades of owning exlusively Japanese cars, this was absolutely a factor in my making the switch.

3) Price. I could have gotten an 4BW with everything I wanted (including the Top Tier seats) for $67k. M3 was nowhere near that. I wound up with a fairly loaded car (everything except carbon and Alcantara) and was still under the base price of an M3.

The Feels

4) I liked the idea of driving something built (mostly) by Americans. I'm surely one of the least flag-wavy guys on here, but when I bought my Frontier it was a nice feeling knowing I helped some guy pay his mortgage (or at least his oxy dealer's mortgage).

5) BMWs are just hideous to look at. Hideous. The CT4 is great except for the rear. (Recent pics comparing it to an old ATS just emphasize how bad GM got it.)

6) Magneride is amazing.

7) Tremec is glorious - but apparently only if you get a good one. I wasn't aware of the Tremec "crapshoot" when I ordered mine, and if I had known about it probably would have given me pause.

8) After 18 years of driving AWD cars, when my eyes wandered to GERmany it was Audis I was looking at. Years ago I did a road trip where I got to drive an E46 M3 and B7 S4 back-to-back. I loved the S4 and did not care for the M3 at all. The M3 had SMG (worst trans evar) and an early generation of iDrive (repulsive), and they collectively ruined the driving experience.

9) If I were spending M3 money I'd start cross-shopping the Porsche Cayman S.

 

[seattlecubes]

For me it was the prospect of long-term ownership, the looks, and the price that nudged me to the CT4. One of my best friends has the current M3 and to get an equivalent car it was basically the price of a CT5 BW. I actually think the CT4 is more comparatively priced to the M2, but comparison is inevitable.

 

[Exia]

I believe that they're 2 piston and are not monoblock.

They're actually only SINGLE piston rears. You don't even get two.

 

[Exia]

2) The 6-year, 70k mile powertrain warranty. After literally decades of owning exlusively Japanese cars, this was absolutely a factor in my making the switch.

This is also a massive perk not mentioned often. Cadillac has one of the best warranties out of any manufacturer except for Mitsubishi or original owner Hyundai's but neither of those OEM's are selling you a luxury performance sedan. If owning a Blackwing is something you want long term the 4 year bumper to bumper and 6 year powertrain is a big win against the competition for peace of mind.