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What made you choose a Blackwing and what else did you consider?

I had a 2012 CTSV and a 2017. I was debating between 5BW and RS6 avant. The aggressive looks of the 2017 was a huge selling point and one I miss with the 5BW. The old carbon hood with the carbon hood vent was so mean looking.

When I went to find an RS6 avant people were marking them up like crazy, and I am a die hard not a penny over MSRP person. I will never, ever, give a dealer $1 extra just because they have it on the lot.

Other thing that kept me away was the voice in my head telling me to get a manual kept getting louder and louder. Couldn’t ignore it anymore and ditched the idea of the RS6 and fully committed to the BW.
 
Well, it turns out I can't live with the numb steering of the BMW, even though the car is perfect for me in every other way - enough power and good enough handling on the well maintained twisty roads I drive for entertainment. Those mountain road driving vacations are the only reason I need a better car than a Civic.

The test drive in the Blackwing was a revelation. Of course I didn't get to test out the steering feedback at the traction limit, but in ordinary driving the feedback was exceptional. The BMW is strictly an eyeball car - near centre there is no self-centering at all, so you have no idea what the car is doing unless you look. I got the feeling in the Blackwing that I could keep it centred in the lane for miles with my eyes closed, just using steering feedback.

Based on the road tests I'm expecting that the steering feedback will be great at the traction limit as well. This is important to me because I'm not an exceptional driver. The feedback at the limit is there on the BMW - it loads up as the limit is approached and lightens as the fronts start to slide - but it is so subtle that it takes too much concentration to detect it.

I am a long time autocrosser - so I regularly (and safely) approach limit handling of my car and exceed it. All my cars except the Blackwing are old and I have never had a car I thought had bad "steering feel" - in fact, I'm not sure what every one is talking about with "good steering feel" except for what you described above that I made bold. Namely, when the front tires approach the limit of traction, ie when and just before grip decreases when too much front tire slip angle is achieved, the self centering force in the steering while cornering decreases - in other words, the steering "goes light" when you get to the limit of front grip - every car I've driven hard had does that (everything made in the last 35 years) - and that is what I expect. With that feedback, you know exactly when you have exceeded the car's capabilities and I instinctively unwind a little steering lock to regain front grip.


I understand that newer electronic power steering systems (BMWs in particular - per Jason Cammisa) filter that feedback out, and that limit of traction feedback is what I really want from steering. The other thing I want in steering is that it is precise so that I can place the front of the car inches away from that apex cone (ie no slop and no nonlinearity - which, from my experience, every manufacturer figured out how to do decades ago - ie anything with a rack and pinion, but NOT my 66 mustang or 1930 Ford steering).

I hae not yet autocrossed my blackwing, but I did autocross a BW at Spring mountain. The autocross at SM is far too tight - so there is LOTS of understeer, and the steering did seem to go light when the car is pushed too hard. That is, it has the feedback you are looking for.

However, I doubt you'll ever experience that sensation on the street - because you'll never exceed the front end grip. This is because of the "amazing alpha platform" and the "physics defying handling" and "dynamagic" handling Jason Cammisa talks about (listen to the carmudgeon show episode 56 at 21:36). As Jason describes, if you drive around a skip pad at the limit - the car has mild understeer, but if you add more lock, instead of pushing wide with tires scrubbing or squealing, the car turns in right now - you were at the handling limit, but there was more grip you didn't realize exists. (I am convinced the mag ride shocks are transferring weight off the outside front tire and on to the the outside rear during these transient situations - which gives more front grip than any car without the magride tuning could possibly deliver - aka physics defying.)

What this means in the real world is that if you turn in too early, or come around a turn and there's a deer or rocks in the road, and you add more lock, the car obeys your commands - when every car you've ever driven before in your life would have understeered until the scrubbing tires bled off enough speed to slow the car below the front end grip limit. To me, this is the magic of the car. It hides all sins. These are 500 and 700 horsepower cars, that can be driven by average drivers at 10/10ths on the street or a track, that won't kill you. At Spring Mountain, I was in the fastest 3 car group, and one of the other drivers in my group said "I've never done anything like this before" and he was within a second of the instructor's time. What other 700 hp car can be driven by someone with no high performance driving experience within a second or two of an instructor on a track? By all rights, a 700 hp RWD car driven at the limit should kill a novice driver, but the Blackwings make that same person a hero. Physics defying indeed.

As to the backend, I did one SM class in a 5 and one in a 4. In the wet figure 8 drill (where you turn all traction and stability control off), I spun the 4 a couple of times. I never spun the 5. These were on different days, so maybe the conditions (wetness, etc) were different, but the 5 was a big 700 hp puppy dog - perhaps due to the longer wheelbase and higher inertia of the 4 vs the 5 (or maybe it was just different conditions on different days), it was super easy to control the back end at the limit and I never spun. I also (unintentionally) got the back end to come around coming out of the bowl, and I saved it before I even consciously realized what happened. On turn 1 the rear was rotating under braking and then was stepping out once I put the power down. I was probably driving the car at 10.5 tenths around the whole track and could have shaved a couple of seconds off my lap times with a cleaner (ie 9.5 or 10 tenths laps), but I was grinning from ear to ear. I think my NB Miata is pretty forgiving and easy to control at the limit (in contrast to my S2000 which is an axe murder that wants to kill me), but the 5BW has it beat. I feel safer pushing this car in the canyons than I do the Miata (I leave the stability control on). You have to do something truly stupid before the BW bites you.

So, you won't be disappointed in the steering, and, I suspect, you'll be surprised and amazed at the limit handling these cars have. Despite your claim you aren’t an exceptional driver, the fact that you understand that the steering wheel self centering torque decreases when you reach the limit of front end grip probably puts you in the top 1% of drivers. I think you'll have a blast pushing the BW to its limit. The car is incredibly comfortable (if a bit dull compared to my other noisier, less capable, less comfortable cars) around town, but out in the canyons it blows my mind every time I get in it - the car shrinks in size and it forgives every sin - in short, it turns average drivers into exceptional ones.

 
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The dealer has over a 4k mark up on the red one. Shame on them.
On the price summary, it looks like both the red ones are MSRP. The extra $4700 is est. taxes and fees. I don't think many dealers are trying to mark up the non-special edition ones any more, and many of those I've seen with discounts.
 
I had a 2012 CTSV and a 2017. I was debating between 5BW and RS6 avant. The aggressive looks of the 2017 was a huge selling point and one I miss with the 5BW. The old carbon hood with the carbon hood vent was so mean looking.

When I went to find an RS6 avant people were marking them up like crazy, and I am a die hard not a penny over MSRP person. I will never, ever, give a dealer $1 extra just because they have it on the lot.

Other thing that kept me away was the voice in my head telling me to get a manual kept getting louder and louder. Couldn’t ignore it anymore and ditched the idea of the RS6 and fully committed to the BW.
I am all for capitalism and the dealers having the right to set the price; however, I won't do business with dealers who are gouging their customers. Thus, I too will never pay over MSRP. I really don't remember when I have ever paid MSRP. I always negotiate. It drives my wife crazy.
 
I am all for capitalism and the dealers having the right to set the price; however, I won't do business with dealers who are gouging their customers. Thus, I too will never pay over MSRP. I really don't remember when I have ever paid MSRP. I always negotiate. It drives my wife crazy.
There are two groups that pay more than MSRP, 1) people with vast amounts of cash or credit and 2) those that get emotionally involved in the product or service and whatever principles they possessed take the back seat in the moment.
 
I always negotiate. It drives my wife crazy.
Same here... Negotiating is part of the thrill for me, not just with cars but with all significant purchases and services. Interestingly, my wife appreciates this about me so much that she delegates the car buying to me. After all, the "squeaky wheel gets the grease." 😉
 
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