Track/AutoX rats! Tire questions for BW5

[MatthewAMEL]

Anyone out there that uses their BW5 on Track or for AutoX...any luck getting a wider that 275 on the front?

How much room is there in the fender well for a wider tire?

 

[poor-sha]

I've just been running the stock tires and am pretty happy with them. However, I was looking at Tire Rack the other day and noticed the Goodyear 3R has a 285/305 fitment that looks like it would work.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

I've just been running the stock tires and am pretty happy with them. However, I was looking at Tire Rack the other day and noticed the Goodyear 3R has a 285/305 fitment that looks like it would work.

And that’s the tire I was thinking of. Do you think there is enough room for the 285?

The Falken RT660 is avail in OEM size. That is the go-to AutoX tire this year.

 

[Sphinx]

Sorry for the off topic questions, but it seems you guys are my people - you'd know the answers to these questions: Are you guys running CCBs or steel? How often are you going through rotors (as in how many track days)? What track pad are you guys running? If you bought CCB (or steel), do you regret your decision?

Did you do any other prep besides brake fluid, track pads and tires? How's the brake ducting on the car? Did you add any more?

I already have an SCCA race car - but I do want to take this car out periodically and am wondering what to expect.

 

[poor-sha]

I have CCBs and have tracked mine a few times but like you I have a dedicated track car. The brakes worked well and I thought the pad life was fair and cost for the front pads was pretty reasonable. The first set of pads I changed at around half depth because I was heading to a four-day event at VIR and didn't want to mess with changing them. The first set were on for four days at that point but I didn't drive a ton - 18 sessions totally 156 min on track.

The second set I've only run for 2 days at VIR and they seem to be holding up ok.

The CCB rotors are really the question though. I'd track this car a lot more but I'm afraid to have to replace those CCB rotors at ~$7500 a set online (more like $11,500 at retail!). So far they look fine with no pot marks but I haven't bothered to pull them and weigh them.

The tires also held up (and worked) surprisingly well. After 6 days and ~5000 street miles they would've still worked for the track but surprisingly the inside edge of the fronts were starting to cord so I replaced them - the rears still look good.

I did a little video walkaround on how the car was holding up to track usage and I've posted a bunch of other vids here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/HiPoDriver/search?query=Blackwing

 

[poor-sha]

And that’s the tire I was thinking of. Do you think there is enough room for the 285?

The Falken RT660 is avail in OEM size. That is the go-to AutoX tire this year.

I would think an extra 10mm would fit. I loved the 3Rs on track but they are diabolical when cold so I don't think they would make a good autox tire.

I hadn't ever considered the RT660. Do you think they are better than the bespoke Michelins on the car?

 

[Sphinx]

I have CCBs and have tracked mine a few times but like you I have a dedicated track car. The brakes worked well and I thought the pad life was fair and cost for the front pads was pretty reasonable. The first set of pads I changed at around half depth because I was heading to a four-day event at VIR and didn't want to mess with changing them. The first set were on for four days at that point but I didn't drive a ton - 18 sessions totally 156 min on track.

The second set I've only run for 2 days at VIR and they seem to be holding up ok.

The CCB rotors are really the question though. I'd track this car a lot more but I'm afraid to have to replace those CCB rotors at ~$7500 a set online (more like $11,500 at retail!). So far they look fine with no pot marks but I haven't bothered to pull them and weigh them.

The tires also held up (and worked) surprisingly well. After 6 days and ~5000 street miles they would've still worked for the track but surprisingly the inside edge of the fronts were starting to cord so I replaced them - the rears still look good.

I did a little video walkaround on how the car was holding up to track usage and I've posted a bunch of other vids here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/HiPoDriver/search?query=Blackwing

How easy is it (and does it make sense) to swap to steels when you have to swap rotors? I know a lot of corvette guys swapped their CCBs for steel and put the CCBs on the shelf.

Just watched your video. Sounds like you got PDR. Do you recommend it? I currently run a Garmin Catalyst, which doesn't have telemetry. But do i really need telemetry?

 

[MatthewAMEL]

How easy is it (and does it make sense) to swap to steels when you have to swap rotors? I know a lot of corvette guys swapped their CCBs for steel and put the CCBs on the shelf.

Just watched your video. Sounds like you got PDR. Do you recommend it? I currently run a Garmin Catalyst, which doesn't have telemetry. But do i really need telemetry?

The PDR system is magic. The best feature is the Cosworth Toolbox that runs on your PC. You can review all of your laps and even designate a 'reference lap' and have it ghost all your other laps in playbacks.

It can't be added after the fact. The video system of the Garmin is probably better (the PDR2 is 1080p), but the telemetry and tools of the PDR are top notch.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

I would think an extra 10mm would fit. I loved the 3Rs on track but they are diabolical when cold so I don't think they would make a good autox tire.

I hadn't ever considered the RT660. Do you think they are better than the bespoke Michelins on the car?

So far, I have used the 660s for AutoX and for Time Trial (200TW tire required). I love them. Much better suited to my driving style than the RE71's were.

I have a 305 square setup for AutoX and a 305/315 setup for Track/TT. This is on my 1LE.

 

[Sphinx]

The PDR system is magic. The best feature is the Cosworth Toolbox that runs on your PC. You can review all of your laps and even designate a 'reference lap' and have it ghost all your other laps in playbacks.

It can't be added after the fact. The video system of the Garmin is probably better (the PDR2 is 1080p), but the telemetry and tools of the PDR are top notch.

Just watched @poor-sha's crash analysis of his friend's camaro. Looks like my AiM MXL2 data. Very powerful stuff. Gotta think about that one!po

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Sorry for the off topic questions, but it seems you guys are my people - you'd know the answers to these questions: Are you guys running CCBs or steel? How often are you going through rotors (as in how many track days)? What track pad are you guys running? If you bought CCB (or steel), do you regret your decision?

Did you do any other prep besides brake fluid, track pads and tires? How's the brake ducting on the car? Did you add any more?

I already have an SCCA race car - but I do want to take this car out periodically and am wondering what to expect.

I spec'd mine with CCBs.

Two primary reasons...this car is brake by wire...no direct connect between pedal and caliper. The computer decides how much pedal feel there should be. It creates a situation where you could boil the fluid or reach pad fade and not know (because pedal never got soft) until you were out of brake. Bad feeling at Sebring and other places.

2nd - This is a heavy car. I want the surety of CCB's when I'm gunning for my 'hero lap' in the 3rd session of the day at Sebring or Daytona. The 'no fade' was the primary selling point for me. Brembo says this 2nd Gen CCB lasts twice as long as the rotor that was on the C7 ZR-1. I guess we will find out.

 

[poor-sha]

How easy is it (and does it make sense) to swap to steels when you have to swap rotors? I know a lot of corvette guys swapped their CCBs for steel and put the CCBs on the shelf.

Just watched your video. Sounds like you got PDR. Do you recommend it? I currently run a Garmin Catalyst, which doesn't have telemetry. But do i really need telemetry?

You really need to get a set of rotors sized for the calipers. I hear Girodsic is working on iron replacements but that are going to be really heavy.

Definitely get the PDR! I've become a bit of a specialist in the system and it really is phenomenal. I've posted a bunch of "how to" videos on YT to help folks get started but you really want to get the Lite (free) version of Pi Toolbox to make the most out of it. Cosworth also has a mobile app for looking at data and that is something they are continuing to develop.

I also have and use the Garmin but it really has a different purpose. I like it for the real-time feedback and it's a nice big predictive lap timer to use on track. It also is a great way to get a quick look between sessions of where your opportunities are, but if I want to dig in to the data I use the PDR.

Just watched @poor-sha's crash analysis of his friend's camaro. Looks like my AiM MXL2 data. Very powerful stuff. Gotta think about that one!po

Was that Scott? Really great family and I try to make it to their Racing for ALS events at VIR. I was there for the last one with the 5BW but had to leave early to get the RV repaired so I could get home. That's the 4-day event I mentioned before that ended up only a 2-day event.

I just posted a new WDIC last night from T3 at VIR.

I spec'd mine with CCBs.

Two primary reasons...this car is brake by wire...no direct connect between pedal and caliper. The computer decides how much pedal feel there should be. It creates a situation where you could boil the fluid or reach pad fade and not know (because pedal never got soft) until you were out of brake. Bad feeling at Sebring and other places.

2nd - This is a heavy car. I want the surety of CCB's when I'm gunning for my 'hero lap' in the 3rd session of the day at Sebring or Daytona. The 'no fade' was the primary selling point for me. Brembo says this 2nd Gen CCB lasts twice as long as the rotor that was on the C7 ZR-1. I guess we will find out.

I had brake by wire in my C8 and it will tell you via a message on the dash if you are starting to get brake fade and it also will change the brake feel. You don't get a low pedal but the feel is very "wooden" when that happens. The big lesson here is to put in a quality fluid like Castrol SRF and you also want to follow the factory procedure to bleed the clutch (it's a shared fluid reservoir).

I hadn't heard Brembo claim that these last twice as long. I've been tempted to track the car at least through the first set of rotors but again I really don't want to pay for new rotors. Anyone know a sponsor?

 

[Sphinx]

Was that Scott? Really great family and I try to make it to their Racing for ALS events at VIR. I was there for the last one with the 5BW but had to leave early to get the RV repaired so I could get home. That's the 4-day event I mentioned before that ended up only a 2-day event.

Not sure, but it was the crash in the 1LE ZL1. My SM has so little power that you can go through there at WOT from T4a to T10.

I've always said that I wouldn't need the PDR - and I don't think I'll track this car enough to use it regularly. And I don't want to crash this car - but you have me thinking that I'll regret not getting it.

One more question - so, would you recommend the carbon packs or not? I'm inclined to get them, if nothing else because they look good and this will be a daily driver.

 

[poor-sha]

Not sure, but it was the crash in the 1LE ZL1. My SM has so little power that you can go through there at WOT from T4a to T10.

I've always said that I wouldn't need the PDR - and I don't think I'll track this car enough to use it regularly. And I don't want to crash this car - but you have me thinking that I'll regret not getting it.

One more question - so, would you recommend the carbon packs or not? I'm inclined to get them, if nothing else because they look good and this will be a daily driver.

Are you referring to the carbon aero? I like them, although the CF2 package is mainly the rear diffuser which is less noticeable and a lot of money for what it is. I built mine as a last of the breed YOLO car so it's up to you - assuming you can even get the CF packages.

Let's just say I'd get PDR on order and add the CF bits later if I had to.

 

[Sphinx]

Are you referring to the carbon aero? I like them, although the CF2 package is mainly the rear diffuser which is less noticeable and a lot of money for what it is. I built mine as a last of the breed YOLO car so it's up to you - assuming you can even get the CF packages.

Let's just say I'd get PDR on order and add the CF bits later if I had to.

Yes, the carbon aero options. I don't mind waiting till the packages are available to get the car and on your advice, I'm likely going to add PDR once they have allocation.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Yes, the carbon aero options. I don't mind waiting till the packages are available to get the car and on your advice, I'm likely going to add PDR once they have allocation.

If you are going to track (or just like the look), you can add the CF pieces after purchase.

That's what I had to do to get an order in.

It will be more expensive if you do them all, but better to have the car than not, IMHO.

There was also some chatter on one of the threads that Mirza participated in where he said to be sure and add the front/rear pieces of CF1 if you are going to track at high speeds. The downforce/lift reduction is matched between the pieces. Just doing splitter or spoiler would make the car handle strangely in the high speed regime.

Happily, a few dedicated folks are keeping a thread with the CF parts required for the BW4 and 5.

Carbon fiber PN database.

Here are the OEM carbon fibers part numbers for both the 4 & 5 Blackwing. Use a variety of online sources to check prices such as Gmpartsdirect, GMpartscorp.com, etc. CT4-BW: Rear Spoiler PN 85561509 Front Splitter PN 84433235(old)85563054(new) Wheel deflector PN 84586281 Wheel deflector PN...

www.cadillacvnet.com

 

[poor-sha]

Yeah, definitely want to match front/rear with the CF1 parts. The CF2 parts seems to just be bling.