Octane ratings

[XjonesX]

So apparently I can't get search to work here, so I thought I'd ask the community.
Next week I'll be putting on my summer tires, then I'm heading out to the drag strip close to me, for "Test & Tune " night.
I want to see what I can put down consistently time wise in different modes, and what works best at the strip.

I digress....., I looked for what octane levels the TTV6 would handel. Didn't find anything specific. I use 93 all the time, but when I go to the track I want a octane boost.
So I been thinking about purchasing some Sunoco 260 GT. 100 octane race fuel.
It would take 7 gallons (can & half) to get me to 98 octane for the track.

Now it's time for all you armchair quarterbacks to chime in.

Can this be done without damage to the engine or turbos?

Does the computer recognise the higher octane, and does it compensate for it?
I'm running 0 - 60 in 3.8 now with all season tires, and 93 octane.

Can I reasonably pick up 2 to 3 tenths in the 0 - 60 with summer tires, and 98 octane?

Appreciate your comments.

 

[G.Newt]

1. Yes, unleaded race gas is not an issue.
2. Depends. If you were pulling timing on 93 AKI (not all 93 is created equal). AKI = (R + M) / 2. Ron and Mon octane ratings are different and AKI is just the average. Mon is the more important octane rating but gas never discloses what each one tested at.
3. See #2. If your car wasn't pulling any timing it won't make you faster. If it was, you may pick up a bit of speed, all other things being equal. Summer tires may help.

 

[DCV]

Unless it has a wideband sensor and can advance the timing running race gas won’t do much.

 

[WONT TAP]

1. Yes, unleaded race gas is not an issue.
2. Depends. If you were pulling timing on 93 AKI (not all 93 is created equal). AKI = (R + M) / 2. Ron and Mon octane ratings are different and AKI is just the average. Mon is the more important octane rating but gas never discloses what each one tested at.
3. See #2. If your car wasn't pulling any timing it won't make you faster. If it was, you may pick up a bit of speed, all other things being equal. Summer tires may help.

This is solid information. With the stock tune, you won't gain anything from higher octane fuel. With aftermarket tuning, we can turn up the boost and/or ignition timing advance to match your fuel octane.

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[WONT TAP]

Unless it has a wideband sensor and can advance the timing running race gas won’t do much.

These cars from from the factory with dual wideband oxygen sensors. However, widebands measure the air/fuel mixture (i.e. richness). They don't have any way to determine fuel octane.

 

[DCV]

True but with a wideband sensor you can see a bigger voltage range and fine tune the AF ratio, and lean it out till you almost get to the point detonation by advancing the timing, which is what you do with race gas.

 

[WONT TAP]

True but with a wideband sensor you can see a bigger voltage range and fine tune the AF ratio, and lean it out till you almost get to the point detonation by advancing the timing, which is what you do with race gas.

There is no need to manually adjust fueling on these cars. Since they have wideband oxygen sensors from the factory, this happens automatically.

 

[jbawden]

I think with a stock tune/build the only real benefit of higher octane is reducing knock sensor events that will pull timing. Race gas might add a little bit of consistency to your output levels and 1/4 mile runs if you're hot lapping

Search tip: I don't know if this is common knowledge but you can use Google to search forums rather than relying on the native search engine. Open a new page and type what you're looking for followed by this: site:www.cadillacvnet.com. It directs Google to search just this site (or whatever site you like) so for the OP it might look like this: octane site:www.cadillacvnet.com

 

[Rob CT4-V]

Back in my turbo Buick days before alky injection, I used to mix 3 gallons of 93 octane, 1 gallon of Xylene, and 1 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil. That would yield about 98 octane or so. It did make it tough to read plugs as they would be totally clean/white. As long as it was logged for KR, I could raise the boost up about 5psi over 93 octane. Ran like that for a couple of years with no problems/issues but ended up going alky injection and never put anything other than 93 octane in it and ran about the same boost.

 

[XjonesX]

Thanks guys..., lot of good info to digest.
Won't waste $90 on race fuel then.
Much like Rob said, I remember old school stuff (70's 80's) with rochesters & elderB's when you could get away with more with power boosters.
I've been analog for the last 25 years with my 86 El Camino as my daily driver/survivor, that moving into this digital car world has me for a loss sometimes with my vehicle.
I'm looking at somewhere down the road, talking to (Scott?) at TOT to get a Blue or Purple upgrade. Just need to do a bit more research of what's involved, and time frame.

Again, thanks for the insights.

 

[XjonesX]

Back in my turbo Buick days before alky injection, I used to mix 3 gallons of 93 octane, 1 gallon of Xylene, and 1 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil. That would yield about 98 octane or so. It did make it tough to read plugs as they would be totally clean/white. As long as it was logged for KR, I could raise the boost up about 5psi over 93 octane. Ran like that for a couple of years with no problems/issues but ended up going alky injection and never put anything other than 93 octane in it and ran about the same boost.

Saw you had a two 04 GTO's. Buddy of mine has a orangish gold color one. I think it's an 05.
Didn't know if you saw this story from GM authority.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/06/2004-2006-pontiac-gto-designer-explains-why-it-flopped/

 

[Rob CT4-V]

Saw you had a two 04 GTO's. Buddy of mine has a orangish gold color one. I think it's an 05.
Didn't know if you saw this story from GM authority.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/06/2004-2006-pontiac-gto-designer-explains-why-it-flopped/

I had not seen that. There were a number of reasons it "failed" but spending money really wasn't one of them. They spent a ton of money on the '04 just on the exhaust to make it sound like a '64. It is actually a very nice flowing piece. I only lost 5rwhp when I went from a Corsa back to it when I was around 430rwhp.

The engine was straight from the Corvette with I believe the exact same rating. Got the Z06 6spd also. It was only scheduled to be built for 3 years as that line was at the end of it's cycle. Then the G8 would come over. Pricing got expensive because the value of the dollar vs Aussie dollars, so it was more expensive than originally planned. Putting the gas tank in the trunk was a mistake. As the Catera had it under the car and no explosions. But you couldn't run an exhaust pipe on that side with a tank under there...

LS2 in '05 and '06, bigger brakes, hood scoops, and crappy sounding exhaust but on both sides to appease the haters. '04 was a true dual as neither side touched. It was a great car and still is, parts are a lot harder to come by now though. Still a blast to drive and still one of the most comfortable seats I've ever owned.

Orange would have been an '06. Sorry for the long post.

 

[XjonesX]

all good..., love to hear peeps stories about their ride.
Gawd I know peeps get tired of me going on about my caddy & camino. lol : )
IDK..., I have the $3k seat option in my car, and they are very comfortable, and have every option except for giving me a hand job...., that was an extra $400 . : )

 

[sleepys4]

My 2 cents, if you reset the car and run 100 octane you would use the available timing that these have from the factory. Its going to pull 6-7 degrees ignition timing on 93 octane all day. At the very least I would run octane booster and you may see 25/26 degrees of timing up top.

Can't confirm with these this second because I don't have my owners manual handy, but in the C7 Z06 with even less aggressive timing it is recommend to use 100 octane on the track if the temperature is above 86 degrees. Excerpt from the manual below.


LT4 Engine : 93 octane (or higher)unleaded gasoline is required.100 octane (or higher) unleaded gasoline is recommended at the track when temperatures are above30 °C (86 °F) to maximize powertrain performance and improve longevity of components within the powertrain.

 

[rdollie]

Back in my turbo Buick days before alky injection, I used to mix 3 gallons of 93 octane, 1 gallon of Xylene, and 1 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil. That would yield about 98 octane or so. It did make it tough to read plugs as they would be totally clean/white. As long as it was logged for KR, I could raise the boost up about 5psi over 93 octane. Ran like that for a couple of years with no problems/issues but ended up going alky injection and never put anything other than 93 octane in it and ran about the same boost.

I used to do the same 20 years ago with a Volvo S60R that I ran in d-stock autocross. I pray every day I don't come down with cancer from the exposure!!