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GM cancelling warranty on z06, hummer, Escalade-V if flipped

malakas

Seasoned Member
Joined
May 18, 2022
Messages
95
Location
California
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
Former CTS-V Wagon owner, aspiring CT5V Blackwing Owner
2009 Tahoe Hybrid
2010 Yukon Denali
2011 Escalade
2012 Escalade
2015 Z/28
2015 Corvette Z06
2016 Corvette Z06 (Callaway)
2015 Z/28 (2nd one cause I missed my first one)
2022 CT5V Blackwing

2023 Escalade V (status 3400)
2023 Z06 (status 1100)
2023 CT5V Blackwing (was waiting for matte black color availability to order)
2024 Silverado EV (reserved)

That is my GM purchase and order history over the last decade or so. I note it not as a flex but just to convey that I have been a good customer to the brand, nothing special and there are many others who dwarf my purchase history (many who like this policy). I also note it to make the following point ...

All the above cars were sold within a year of purchase, none of them for profit ... in fact all of them lost tens of thousands of dollars in the transaction, not to mention the sales tax hits on top of that. There was no complaint from me, I enjoyed the cars and understood the price of admission for my vehicular addiction, it is my primary passion in life, I am an enthusiast to the core both on the street and on track, who is blessed to be able to afford this habit.

I will now have to do it purchasing cars from other brands that do not restrict or penalize me for doing with my possessions as I wish after I have paid for them with my money. This whilst I do not see a similar form asking dealers to agree that they will not sell these cars over MSRP. It isn't just wrong, it is insulting.

My plan was to keep the Z06 for more than a year, and despite that I am withdrawing my order anyway. My Escalade V was likely to be driven for 10k or so miles and be sold with a year, obviously not a flip as it was going to be my daily driver, so that purchase would directly be impacted by this policy. I was already reconsidering my purchase of that vehicle as GM decided to price it at $150k whilst constraining supercruise on what is Caddy's halo model, and also constrained my color choice ... this just makes that decision easier. Like I said I will also not be ordering the second CT5 V Blackwing that I was getting to replace my current one not the upcoming Silverado EV.

I enjoyed my GM vehicles a great deal, my current CT5V Blackwing is one of the best and most fun cars I've ever driven. As a long time 458 Spider owner, I know how magical these engines can be and I was really looking forward to the Z06, as I was to the Escalade V ... but I am cursed with this principles thing that's going to make me miss out on them, and I deeply resent GM for forcing me in this situation that I have to make these choices, but in the end I didn't work my ass off all my life to be restricted in my use of a product I purchase with the fruits of that labor, by a freaking car company no less.

This will undoubtedly make other customers very happy to take my spots for all these highly desired vehicles. That doesn't bother me one bit ... that's because I am indifferent as to what other people do with their money and purchases. I don't care if a stranger flips their car just like I don't care if a stranger gets my spot, those are other peoples lives and I wish everyone the best. My responsibility is to myself, my mirror, and my ethics, and I refuse to give a penny of my money to a company that penalizes my loyalty and continuing business in such a fashion.

GM will sell out the Z06 and will sell out the Escalade V. Those are not the only cars they sell, and this supply chain distortion will not last forever. I am not the only one with a long memory.

Anyway, congratulations to GM, they took me and many other of their best customers out of their brands with this policy (yes, we talk to each other), I hope it was was worth it in this poorly thought out attempt to take out a tiny subset of people who flip cars that only exist because they can't produce enough cars and will organically fade away when they gradually go back to their historical production numbers.

I wish GM and everyone the best ... but I'm done with that company with no path back to it no matter what they do, say, or build moving forward.

The whole thing is so infuriatingly stupid.
Thankfully there are plenty of car choices out there ... I'm pretty sure I'll be fine. :)
I’m sorry this is where you landed on this decision but understand the concept of living life with a set of core principles. I think this is a case where there are no perfect solutions and sometimes in order to protect the interests of one group you need to hurt the interests of another. I totally get that this is an infringement on property rights being imposed by the manufacturer but also get that they are doing so to try to keep these limited production cars accessible to their core enthusiast clientele. I think you’d agree that GM has every right to try to control the distribution of the products they manufacture but that in this case they crossed the line into infringement on your property rights. I can only speculate that they did so only because they felt they other levers they could pull weren’t enough to get the job done. It’s easy for me to say they should just pull allocation from misbehaving dealers but my guess is if it were that simple the would have done it by now. Dealers are a strong and well funded group and it will likely take time to implement change to long standing business practices that will stand up in court. While we are on opposite sides of this issue, I do get your concerns and still see GM’s move here as a nuclear option that on balance they judged to be their best move. Sorry that this has resulted in your decision to cut ties with their products as it does look like they have plenty of interesting products to be enjoyed in the near term.
 

jwolf99

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Messages
437
Location
New York
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2022 CT5-V Blackwing
gm_letter_e9d506f791124bdf16faacfcd4378e4cc6386186.jpg


Withdrawing both my Z06 and Escalade V orders, will not order another Blackwing or the Silverado EV I reserved.

My current Blackwing will be my last GM product.
Umm, what if you don't sign? Can dealer halt sale of the car?
 

565565

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Messages
301
Location
Northeast
2009 Tahoe Hybrid
2010 Yukon Denali
2011 Escalade
2012 Escalade
2015 Z/28
2015 Corvette Z06
2016 Corvette Z06 (Callaway)
2015 Z/28 (2nd one cause I missed my first one)
2022 CT5V Blackwing

2023 Escalade V (status 3400)
2023 Z06 (status 1100)
2023 CT5V Blackwing (was waiting for matte black color availability to order)
2024 Silverado EV (reserved)



Ummm... does anyone else feel kinda inadequate? Like being super proud of making it to 2nd base with a girl and then finding out the quarter back has been banging the entire cheer squad?
 

rubberduck

Seasoned Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
424
Location
Arizona
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
22 CT5V BW Shadow Metallic MT
I was thinking the Invisible man in this joke from a movie. And GM is Superman.

Superman's flying around metropolis and he's horny as hell. He's checking out the rooftops and all of a sudden he sees Wonder Woman sunning herself on the roof of the Justice League. I mean she is lying there buck naked and spread eagle. Looks like she wants to get fucked.

So Superman starts thinking to himself, "man I gotta get myself some of that wonderpussy," and then he realizes that he can fly down, do a little fast pumping and be gone before she even knows it, because he's Superman, he's faster than a speeding bullet.

So Superman, he swoops down, he fucks her so quick, she doesn't even see him. Wonder Woman sits up and says, "what the fuck was that?" and The Invisible Man says "I don't know but my asshole is killing me."
 

Sphinx

Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Messages
20
Location
Atlanta, GA
So stupid. Remember that GM tried this in January and it made zero difference. Their dealers are the core of the problem. My friend tried to put a deposit on a z06 with hendrick - told ADM required. Eff you GM - talk to your dealers first.
 

565565

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Messages
301
Location
Northeast
I was thinking the Invisible man in this joke from a movie. And GM is Superman.

Superman's flying around metropolis and he's horny as hell. He's checking out the rooftops and all of a sudden he sees Wonder Woman sunning herself on the roof of the Justice League. I mean she is lying there buck naked and spread eagle. Looks like she wants to get fucked.

So Superman starts thinking to himself, "man I gotta get myself some of that wonderpussy," and then he realizes that he can fly down, do a little fast pumping and be gone before she even knows it, because he's Superman, he's faster than a speeding bullet.

So Superman, he swoops down, he fucks her so quick, she doesn't even see him. Wonder Woman sits up and says, "what the fuck was that?" and The Invisible Man says "I don't know but my asshole is killing me."


Soooo... Soulsea is Superman, and Wonder Woman is c8 z06 and Invisible Man is Escalade V?

Or is it GM is Superman, Wonder Woman is the Flipper, and Invisible Man is the 2nd owner?
 

rubberduck

Seasoned Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
424
Location
Arizona
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
22 CT5V BW Shadow Metallic MT
I was going with GM is Superman, Wonder Woman is the C8, and the 1st owner is the Invisible Man. But, there are many ways to read the situation.
 

BrakeFade

Seasoned Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
161
Location
DFW, TX
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
Blackwing on Order
I don't have it in me to explain again why this is a money grab by GM and the dealers disguised as addressing the flipper issue, one that was never a problem when GM was able to make more cars. This is a supply driven issue, the solution is there, not by trying to infringe on the rights of the consumer.

Take this hypothetical ... most Chevy dealers are charging ADM on the Z06. So say someone specs a $145k car and pays the dealer $170k. That person decides they don't like the car, after all no one has even driven it yet, and wants out of it six months and a couple of thousand miles later. So he goes to market with that car and it's worth $160k with its warranty transferable ... still more than its original msrp but less than what he paid after ADM. That's not a flip for profit. That person is losing money and wants out of their car for the most money possible. By taking their ability to transfer their warranty GM further diminishes the value of their car, penalizing them although its not a flip. So now that customer has to decide whether to sell the car privately below market value because it is without warranty, or sell it back to the same unscrupulous dealer who charged ADM in the first place, but now with more leverage because he's the only one that can buy the car and save the warranty, effectively charging a second back ended ADM.

I am a free market person through and through. Different markets go up and go down. If I have to choose between a stranger making a few bucks because of a temporary supply issue and ceding my well established consumer rights to a corporation I will always chose the former.

Again, make more cars and the problem solves itself. Much higher demand brands like Porsche, who also struggle with supply issues, have a lot more common sense and don't try this nonsense, even with their rarest limited edition cars. The only brand I know that does this type of thing is Ferrari, where they won't allow you to sell your car to anyone but the dealer the first year, but Ferrari balances that out with forcing their dealers to sell at MSRP. Same with Ford and the GT orders, you had to qualify and sign a non sell agreement, and the dealer had to sell the car for sticker. That's a fair tradeoff ... you don't ADM me and I promise to hold the car, neither party can take advantage of the other ... but you can't have it free market on the side of the dealer and punish the customer.

IMO.

PS. As a passing note this policy won't change my Z06 order because I was planning to keep that car for a while, but it will likely make me cancel my Escalade V order. Like all my daily drivers I was planning to keep it for 6-9 months, put 10k or so miles on it, and sell it privately. Not a flip, it's just what I've always done no matter the market conditions and 99% of the time at great financial loss but without regret. I'm unlikely to put myself in a position where I have to choose to either sell my car privately at a discount or solicit a trade offer from a dealer with greater leverage on me.

Oh well.

It’s not a “free market”. Flippers and dealer ADMs have caused the price to shift due to supply shortages. GM has acted on this with the unexpected higher base price. This market will never reach equilibrium.
 

quikag

Seasoned Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
124
Location
Dallas
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2023 Escalade V, 2022 CT5-V Blackwing
Soulsea, sorry about your consternation and conclusion on this recent development by GM on the Esc-V, Z06, and Hummer. I am also almost in production on my allocation for the Esc-V (this week or next I'm hearing) and I will be getting a C8 Z06 (1100 status too currently) as I get first allocation at a local dealer. This new development doesn't affect me as I was planning on keeping both vehicles for at least a year and I think it will help stabilize the market a bit for car enthusiasts by pushing out some flippers and "bad actors" and allowing enthusiasts to purchase and enjoy the cars.

I wish you the best on your future vehicle enjoyment and I bet you'll be back in the GM fold in some capacity in the future.
 

Tall Steve

Head Goat Herder
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
2,370
Location
Ghetto
Soulsea, sorry about your consternation and conclusion on this recent development by GM on the Esc-V, Z06, and Hummer. I am also almost in production on my allocation for the Esc-V (this week or next I'm hearing) and I will be getting a C8 Z06 (1100 status too currently) as I get first allocation at a local dealer. This new development doesn't affect me as I was planning on keeping both vehicles for at least a year and I think it will help stabilize the market a bit for car enthusiasts by pushing out some flippers and "bad actors" and allowing enthusiasts to purchase and enjoy the cars.

I wish you the best on your future vehicle enjoyment and I bet you'll be back in the GM fold in some capacity in the future.
You are going to have a kick-ass garage!
 

1StunnaV

Blackwing King
Supporting Dealer
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
335
Location
Dallas
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
715whp 2013 CTS-V Coupe (sold) 590whp 2016 ATS-V Coupe (sold) CT4-V Blackwing (Soon)
A trade in is a different situation than a flip. People generally have more than a thousand or 4k on a vehicles driven in a year, there are "used" 4s and 5s with under 500 miles on the clock at well over msrp, at least 34 based on a quick scan of the inter webs.

Trade actually is almost worse than selling to someone....

most of these flippers are actually flipping to other dealers, not the customers who are buying... . payment is fast, dont have to worry about the other person selling their car first or funding etc.... they make les but its quick and easy...

Generally, the Cadillac dealers will pay the most for them so that's who ends up with them more often than not...They get reported as in inventory and GM sees that.... That's generally the way GM finds out its been flipped..

Whether its directly sold to the dealer or traded, its still sold to the dealer...

names can be removed from the list if there are legit, ethical reasons as to why they should not have ended up on it...... I have had it done...
 

1StunnaV

Blackwing King
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Joined
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Messages
335
Location
Dallas
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
715whp 2013 CTS-V Coupe (sold) 590whp 2016 ATS-V Coupe (sold) CT4-V Blackwing (Soon)
Heres the Vescalade one...

1659595402748.png
 

Finally-a-V

Seasoned Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
552
Location
Oracle, Arizona
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT5 V Blackwing
Sorry I missed this. I posted a question about this elsewhere. So, does this apply to all blackwings or just the 5? If you buy used from a dealer, is the warranty good or voided? Most importantly, how do I know whether or not a certain cars warranty is voided and how fast does the warranty block show on the history? What if I legitimately trade my 4 for a 5, because I want a 5. Is the warranty on my 4 voided, even if traded to a dealer? So many questions.

This doesn't really effect the flipper, it effects the next buyer (the second guy). Honestly, if I'm buying to flip, do I care if the warranty doesn't transfer? If most people don't know about this, it's buyer beware.

I just think it sucks for the next guy. The first guy buys it. Something happens in his life...loses his job, divorces, doesn't like it, it's a lemon, too much power, wants the next thing, etc. Sells private party, regardless of price, GM will/might cancel the warranty? There's no way I'm buying without the warranty, unless price adjusted. I guess from my stand point, GM's plan works.

And as a point of reference, I think it will stand in court. Hyundai/Kia have that 10 year/100K mile powertrain warranty. It does NOT transfer to subsequent buyers. Only the B2B warranty.
 

Snowwolfe

Seasoned Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
316
Location
East Tennessee
Sorry I missed this. I posted a question about this elsewhere. So, does this apply to all blackwings or just the 5? If you buy used from a dealer, is the warranty good or voided? Most importantly, how do I know whether or not a certain cars warranty is voided and how fast does the warranty block show on the history? What if I legitimately trade my 4 for a 5, because I want a 5. Is the warranty on my 4 voided, even if traded to a dealer? So many questions.

This doesn't really effect the flipper, it effects the next buyer (the second guy). Honestly, if I'm buying to flip, do I care if the warranty doesn't transfer? If most people don't know about this, it's buyer beware.

I just think it sucks for the next guy. The first guy buys it. Something happens in his life...loses his job, divorces, doesn't like it, it's a lemon, too much power, wants the next thing, etc. Sells private party, regardless of price, GM will/might cancel the warranty? There's no way I'm buying without the warranty, unless price adjusted. I guess from my stand point, GM's plan works.

And as a point of reference, I think it will stand in court. Hyundai/Kia have that 10 year/100K mile powertrain warranty. It does NOT transfer to subsequent buyers. Only the B2B warranty.I
It doesn’t apply to the Blackwing sedans. Reread post #1
 

Finally-a-V

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Messages
552
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Oracle, Arizona
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
CT5 V Blackwing
It doesn’t apply to the Blackwing sedans. Reread post #1

I understand what the first post says. I asked my question because I read (and asked this question elsewhere) if it will apply to BW's. I saw an ad that stated it will starting with 2023 MY. Trying to get clarification for BW's.
 

Snowwolfe

Seasoned Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
316
Location
East Tennessee
I understand what the first post says. I asked my question because I read (and asked this question elsewhere) if it will apply to BW's. I saw an ad that stated it will starting with 2023 MY. Trying to get clarification for BW's.
Please post the link for the ad
 

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