Carbon Ceramic Brakes Anyone?

[Kawman]

As a result of track days, I've already been thinking about what to do for the next set of rotors. Last week I went down the rabbit hole of lite weight wheels. While in the hole, lite weight Carbon Ceramic Brakes came up.

Scoured the internet looking for manufacturers of CCB products having a part for the 4BW. In another thread a person bought aftermarket CCB for a 5BW and was happy with the Chinese made product they received.

Alibaba is basically the only place I could find anyone to talk(email) with. The front caliper at 380mm x 34mm is a standard size made, but nobody has made CCB in 340.5mm x 28mm for the rear.

Gotta love the Chinese for this characteristic. There's no such thing as, "we don't make the part in the size you need". Just pay the price and wait the time and they'll make you anything you want. So, I've just ordered the first custom set of 340.5mm x 28mm carbon ceramic brakes.

$1,670 Fronts
$1,630 Rears

A full set for the 5BW is right about $3,500.

The brand name is Stopart.

Carbon Ceramic Brakes anyone?

 

[BlackwingSwanny23]

I have the OEM CCBs but this is interesting for sure

 

[Kawman]

Anybody have a 4BW rotor laying around and able to take a measurement for me? DM me please

 

[Carguyshu]

FWIW the ct5 as well as zr1x use CCB with a friction layer coating on them. This causes them to last significantly longer on the track. Rebrake offers it as a service to add this layer but it’s not cheap. About the same price as jus buying new OEM ct5 rotors from an online GM dealer

 

[Paco6666666]

I have a set of stock front carbon rotors for 3-3.5k if anyone is interested.

 

[fish monger]

As a result of track days, I've already been thinking about what to do for the next set of rotors. Last week I went down the rabbit hole of lite weight wheels. While in the hole, lite weight Carbon Ceramic Brakes came up.

Scoured the internet looking for manufacturers of CCB products having a part for the 4BW. In another thread a person bought aftermarket CCB for a 5BW and was happy with the Chinese made product they received.

Alibaba is basically the only place I could find anyone to talk(email) with. The front caliper at 380mm x 34mm is a standard size made, but nobody has made CCB in 340.5mm x 28mm for the rear.

Gotta love the Chinese for this characteristic. There's no such thing as, "we don't make the part in the size you need". Just pay the price and wait the time and they'll make you anything you want. So, I've just ordered the first custom set of 340.5mm x 28mm carbon ceramic brakes.

$1,670 Fronts
$1,630 Rears

A full set for the 5BW is right about $3,500.

The brand name is Stopart.

Carbon Ceramic Brakes anyone?

And what pads do you go with the Carbon Rotors ?

 

[Kawman]

I guess they're also carbon ceramic. They come with the rotors. There is both a street pad and a track pad. I ordered both.

 

[Z28]

I really want to buy these but am afraid of having the same concern. Did GM have you put new pads on when they were replaced?

 

[Kawman]

I didn't want to hijack other threads, so I'm commenting here. Over and over and over everyone keeps saying how much they love their CCB and how they are worth every penny. Some people worrying about the cost of replacement. Yet here we have CCB available for the same price as you'd pay to replace the OEM iron brakes, and yet ..... crickets!

Isn't that the equivalent to having a choice between a $10 McDonald's meal or anything your want from the Ruth Chris Steakhouse menu for the same $10 and somehow choosing the McDonald's meal?

 

[ngoni]

Could you post the measurements and specs you need to provide the seller?

 

[Kawman]

Could you post the measurements and specs you need to provide the seller?

Seller is Shanzhiyuan Auto Parts. You'll be dealing with Kevin Zhang.
These are made using long strand carbon, not the chopped stuff.

Front rotors are 380mm x 34mm x 70mm with a 51mm hat height.
Rear rotors are 340.5mm x 28mm x 55.5mm with a 33mm hat height.
You also pick what color you want your hats to be made.
There is a street pad and a track pad. They're cheap, order both.

Make sure your contract shows "DDP" shipping terms. That means any taxes or import duties are paid by the shipper, not you.

The brand name of the carbon ceramic rings is Stopart. Shanzhiyuan Auto Parts contracts with the factory for the rings, will custom
make the hats, affix the rings and ship them with the pads.

The fronts will be ready in about 2 months, as the ring is a standard size the factory makes for multiple applications. The rears will take 4 months as they are a custom, made to order, never before me made size. Including shipping time you should be planning 6 months ahead of the date you need them.

It took a lot of time, effort and some money to get this all figured out. I had to buy this tool and 2 trips to my mechanic to pull rotors for measurements. Now that all this work has been done, anyone can just contact him and say you want CT4-V Blackwing CCB and he has everything needed to place your order. Now all this work needs to be done again to get the info for the CT5 guys.

At $3,500 delivered, why would anyone ever use iron brakes again?

 

[Z28]

The OEM iron brakes are cheaper than you may think. GM front rotors are $500 each (a few weeks ago they were like $470 or so) and you have a huge selection of pad materials available.

Don’t get me wrong, I think you are on to something here but the stock iron setup is very economical and effective if you don’t care about dust and unsprung weight.

 

[Kawman]

Here are my fronts with my blue hats (Da Ba Dee)

 

[Todd]

I realize the deed is already done, but I’ve been researching drop in carbon parts for my RS6, and found this post interesting over on Audizine:

Drop-in Carbon Ceramic Brakes for Steel Brake Caliper Setup

what do you mean not formed to the right size?. all I know is that I was at a roll racing event at pocono raceway and they performed beautifully when braking and coming into the high banks. did many passes and the brakes never exceeded warm and the pads are still thick as can be. lots of fear...

www.audizine.com

When brake components fail, unlike most every other car part, very, very bad things happen, so I’ve been incredibly skeptical of low priced Alibaba parts.

Any insights into the parts you just bought after reading that Audi post?

 

[Kawman]

I realize the deed is already done, but I’ve been researching drop in carbon parts for my RS6, and found this post interesting over on Audizine:

Drop-in Carbon Ceramic Brakes for Steel Brake Caliper Setup

what do you mean not formed to the right size?. all I know is that I was at a roll racing event at pocono raceway and they performed beautifully when braking and coming into the high banks. did many passes and the brakes never exceeded warm and the pads are still thick as can be. lots of fear...

www.audizine.com

When brake components fail, unlike most every other car part, very, very bad things happen, so I’ve been incredibly skeptical of low priced Alibaba parts.

Any insights into the parts you just bought after reading that Audi post?

First, the post talks about "long strand carbon" being better than "chipped tow". These I bought are of the long strand carbon type.

Second, regarding "low priced Alibaba parts", I think it's difficult for people to accept certain realities. We've been conditioned over life to relate quality to cost and question a good deal. But not being in the business world, the public doesn't see the markups as a product moves through various distribution channels with each person adding their markup to the final price the end user pays. Here is an example of what I've learned regarding wheels.

Scenario #1 - You buy a set of wheels from a seller on Alibaba. They started with a Chinese made block of forged aluminum, water jet it, powder coat it and sell them to you for $1,500.
Scenario #2 - You buy a set of Wheels from a well known "USA brand". The wheels are made in China starting with a Chinese made block of forged aluminum. They are water jetted, powder coated and sold to the USA distributor for $1,200 because of their volume discount. The USA distributor then sell the wheels to you for $3,000.
Scenario #3 - You buy a set of wheels from a USA manufacturer. That USA manufacturer buys their forged aluminum blocks from a Chinese foundry. Here in the US that block is water jetted into a wheel, powder coated and the set is sold to you for $6,000.
Scenario #4 - You want to start with an aluminum block made in a USA foundry. Fine, the final product will cost you $10,000 for a set.

In reality, it is the exact same wheel regardless of which distribution channel you buy it through. The issue of quality comes down to that block of forged aluminum. If there is a problem with the aluminum, then there will be a problem with the wheel regardless of who machines the wheel. Likewise, if there is no problem with the aluminum, there will be no problem with the wheel regardless of who machines it.

Third, there's a guy here on the site that is already using aftermarket Chinese CCB on his 5BW and has reported they are working well for him.

I like learning so please provide facts and insight on things I may be over looking. The more I learn, the more I realize I know nothing yet. Here's one regarding tires. Tires need wider wheels on the track to optimize their capabilities. CT4-V's use a 255 tire on a 9" wheel in the front. Fine for the street, but you are leaving potential on the table with those 9" wheels. You need a 9.5" wheel to get all out of that 255 tire that it has to give. The 18x10 and 18x11 APEX and magnesium wheels I bought are OK for my intended tire width, but I'd be leaving potential on the table. So now I need to go to something like 18x11 and 18x12 wheels to get the full potential from the tires.

 

[rubberduck]

I don’t know about wheels, but in high end audio equipment there are some very high quality components made in China and Taiwan. I try prefer Taiwan and try to avoid China, but it’s hard to do. As you say, exact quality and performance product at half the price.

That said, overwhelmingly most of the stuff from China is shit and one needs to be very careful about the selection of products and have good research insight into the supplier.

There is another aspect that I think a lot of people forget about. The relationship between the US economy and the performance of investments. I have the attitude that what comes around goes around. The more money I spend on US manufacturers I feel like I reap the returns in investment performance.

 

[Todd]

First, the post talks about "long strand carbon" being better than "chipped tow". These I bought are of the long strand carbon type.

Second, regarding "low priced Alibaba parts", I think it's difficult for people to accept certain realities. We've been conditioned over life to relate quality to cost and question a good deal. But not being in the business world, the public doesn't see the markups as a product moves through various distribution channels with each person adding their markup to the final price the end user pays. Here is an example of what I've learned regarding wheels.

Scenario #1 - You buy a set of wheels from a seller on Alibaba. They started with a Chinese made block of forged aluminum, water jet it, powder coat it and sell them to you for $1,500.
Scenario #2 - You buy a set of Wheels from a well known "USA brand". The wheels are made in China starting with a Chinese made block of forged aluminum. They are water jetted, powder coated and sold to the USA distributor for $1,200 because of their volume discount. The USA distributor then sell the wheels to you for $3,000.
Scenario #3 - You buy a set of wheels from a USA manufacturer. That USA manufacturer buys their forged aluminum blocks from a Chinese foundry. Here in the US that block is water jetted into a wheel, powder coated and the set is sold to you for $6,000.
Scenario #4 - You want to start with an aluminum block made in a USA foundry. Fine, the final product will cost you $10,000 for a set.

In reality, it is the exact same wheel regardless of which distribution channel you buy it through. The issue of quality comes down to that block of forged aluminum. If there is a problem with the aluminum, then there will be a problem with the wheel regardless of who machines the wheel. Likewise, if there is no problem with the aluminum, there will be no problem with the wheel regardless of who machines it.

Third, there's a guy here on the site that is already using aftermarket Chinese CCB on his 5BW and has reported they are working well for him.

I like learning so please provide facts and insight on things I may be over looking. The more I learn, the more I realize I know nothing yet. Here's one regarding tires. Tires need wider wheels on the track to optimize their capabilities. CT4-V's use a 255 tire on a 9" wheel in the front. Fine for the street, but you are leaving potential on the table with those 9" wheels. You need a 9.5" wheel to get all out of that 255 tire that it has to give. The 18x10 and 18x11 APEX and magnesium wheels I bought are OK for my intended tire width, but I'd be leaving potential on the table. So now I need to go to something like 18x11 and 18x12 wheels to get the full potential from the tires.

Well, if you read that thread, you’ll see what was told to the buyer isn’t exactly what he got.

Long strand rears and chopped strand front.

And sourced from an unknown factory even though the seller is presenting themselves as the manufacturer.

While I agree with you that quite a few high end products are just Chinese sourced items with a well known brand and mark up on them, there’s quite the risk of Chinese products not being what they say they are, with no brand reputation at all to guard against such dishonesty.

The risk is real.

Not saying this happened to you, but have you verified that indeed you got long strand front and rears and with the layer construction as shown in that other thread?

Buying a known brand is like buying an insurance policy,

 

[Kawman]

Absolutely, the risk is real. Risk is all around us everyday and we manage it as best we can.

So far so good though, my aluminum and magnesium wheels from different suppliers have both worked out great. I'll be ordering from them again.

Can't verify anything yet because I haven't received them yet. Fronts have been ready for a while and the rears are about 1 month away from shipping. This guy isn't pretending to be the carbon ceramic ring manufacturer.

We have a brand name of Stopart for the carbon ceramic rings. A "no name" guy makes the hat and affixes the ring.

Plus there's another element that comes into play here. With wheels we can discuss this manufacturer, or that manufacturer, different distribution channels, etc. 5BW guys can spend $12K and buy parts to retrofit their vehicle. A person might be able to find parts from a totaled car. But as it applies to those with a 4BW, is there ANY other known supplier? Had there been ANY known supplier before I put this thing together?

If it doesn't work out, maybe I'll become the scrap guy looking to buy everyone's used 4BW rotors after they get talked into changing them after one set of pads. LOL

 

[Kawman]

Anybody have 5BW takeoff rotors they can take measurements on? Or you already bought new parts and they can be measured before being installed?

 

[sps4runner]

I have a new iron front rotor (5BW).