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NorCal Blackwing said:
A discussion about the E39 M5 in which the the Blackwings feature heavily as a contrast to them - and maybe not in the way you think...


"[The E39] does more things better than any other car before or since ... until Blackwing"
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Owned an E39 M5 for 6.5 years and I think they captured it well. (actually, Jason used mine in his old Motor Trend video on the Chevy SS!)

Although the 2011 M3 I replaced it with was far better to drive hard in every way, the E39 M5 is still my favorite car I have owned because of the way it combined brutish power and subtle attitude with an exceptional ride, sumptuous interior, etc. It had a reassured "swag" about it that just made you feel good - an outstanding daily driver.

It is for this reason that I have an order for a CT5-V Blackwing because it is the spiritual successor to the E39 M5.
 
white98ls said:
www.motortrend.com

Super Sleds! BMW M5 CS vs. Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing vs. Mercedes-AMG GT63S

Even as we electrify, gas-powered supersedans continue to reach even loftier heights. Three stand out, one is best, and Jonny Lieberman was sick that day.
www.motortrend.com www.motortrend.com
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My biggest issue with some of these reviews is that they fail to review the car for what it is, and more importantly what it is attempting to be against the yardstick the OEM set for it. They tend to review the car based on what they want a car to be.

Not only that, they buy into and regurgitate some of the same misinformation amongst each other. IE the Alpha platform was developed by Cadillac for the ATS and was so good the 6th generation Camaro used it as a platform not vice versa.

Cadillac's performance division has always had two primary goals which were to make bonkers performance cars with just enough civility and luxury to still truly be considered a Cadillac. They aren't extremes of Mopar power for power's sake, or Mercedes luxury for luxury sake, or BMW technology for the sake of technology. They build DRIVERS cars with just enough class to still be acceptable as an executive sedan.

In the case of a track focused car where the engineering ethos was strip the car down to a track weapon and then make everything earn its way back on to the platform, you don't wind up with a huge screen or lots of Uber advanced tech to play with in the cabin, because all of that is in the dynamic components of the car.

Think about it, both BW are incredibly light cars for the amount of luxury items they are carrying, those seat fans aren't light. These cars weigh more than a Nissan murano , so they have that dense solid feel yet, are by all accounts exceedingly agile.

Cadillac wants them to be sleepers. They want it to straddle the fence between performance at any cost and comfort. It's meant to be Jekle and Hyde . The review should address whether the cars meet that standard and to what degree. They could have plastered blackwing on every panel. They didn't because they want blackwing to be more an experience than a trim level. They responded to this lack of external differentiation by giving us track edition cars that for all intents and purposes are just bold new colors and graphics for the collector crowd. My point is BW is a drivers car meant to go work flying under the radar during the week and be acceptable by the clients, be valeted out front on Friday night, rip the track Saturday morning and show up to Church as Sunday best without doing anything but changing the mode switch. That's the intent, does the car pull that off or not? No other maker is currently trying to do that. Yet Caddy is also reaching levels of luxury, performance and technology that put it it in comparison to its rivals in those areas but no one but the Cadillac is attempting to do them all equally well at the same time.

Mercedes focuses on luxury so their performance cars may have great numbers but they go out of their way to isolate the driver from all of that, they want a refined not visceral experience. To say the car has no personality when in fact it has a personality you don't prefer is just lazy writing .

As for the bimmer, they drive great when new, but good grief if you're not one of the very fortunate few who doesn't have technical problems, all I can say is yeah I am unlikely to own another one. The M cars to my experience have been the ultimate in hype about driving machines than drivers, of course this was only when we could get them back from the shop...
 
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ClassaxV said:
My biggest issue with some of these reviews is that they fail to review the car for what it is
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My biggest issue is that EVERY SINGLE REVIEW compares the 4BW to the 5BW.

When I read M3 reviews, they don't start out by listing all the ways the M3 is inferior to the M5. Instead, the talk about all the ways it is better than the actual competition. And all the ways it is worse than prior M3s even though it is faster, LOL.
 
M2Cto4BW said:
FFS folks - they literally said this: "Verdict: The best rear-drive performance sedan ever made."
🙄😄
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Best rear-drive, but not best.

I think the thing that perplexes me is that we're now in a place where an AWD turbocharged automatic provides the best driving experience you can have in a sedan, period (according to Motortrend, Evo and a number of other respected reviewers). I have yet to drive an M5CS but there must be something seriously magical about it.

As an aside we all know Lieberman loves the Blackwing so there is also a solid chance this entire review is trolling him.
 
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A large number of reviews calls the regular M5 and M5 Comp clinical and sterile. Maybe the CS is different, but it's ~$40k more and I believe sold out.

As a former E39 M5 owner, I have no interest as the 5 BW is a lot closer to that formula than any current M5, or anything else for that matter.
 
As great as the m5 CS is I have no interest because it isn’t available with three pedals. It’s a shame they chose to include the a10 blackwing as the 6mt is one of the key distinguishing features of the 5BW. I suspect it’s the reason many people like myself have come over to GM. I never thought I would ever own a cadillac, but I’m so glad I do. The 5BW is really a special car to drive. It is truly incredibly fun.
 
GT325 said:
As great as the m5 CS is I have no interest because it isn’t available with three pedals. It’s a shame they chose to include the a10 blackwing as the 6mt is one of the key distinguishing features of the 5BW. I suspect it’s the reason many people like myself have come over to GM. I never thought I would ever own a cadillac, but I’m so glad I do. The 5BW is really a special car to drive. It is truly incredibly fun.
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Completely agree...getting in and driving my 6 speed manual every day is an event for me.
 
NorCal Blackwing said:
Best rear-drive, but not best.

I think the thing that perplexes me is that we're now in a place where an AWD turbocharged automatic provides the best driving experience you can have in a sedan, period (according to Motortrend, Evo and a number of other respected reviewers). I have yet to drive an M5CS but there must be something seriously magical about it.

As an aside we all know Lieberman loves the Blackwing so there is also a solid chance this entire review is trolling him.
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I drove the M5C around Laguna Seca and it is something else for a huge sedan. I sure didn't have any sense it was AWD in that classic Audi/rallycar sense, except maybe it did prevent me from spinning up the inside rear once? It just hauls. I'd never own a fun car bigger than a 4BW, so I'm not its market, but it was impressive. The size only really showed up at the Corkscrew and then generally & obviously under breaking.
 
M5C: So they didn't like the steering wheel, the feel of the brake pedal, the seats, the interface; plus they debated about the new tires feeling great, but not testing out as well as prior tires. .. it felt like they had gripes most of that portion besides literally the last 2 sentences.

5BW: even though 2 people had driven the 5BW prior with the 6mt...one new guy didn't like the how the A10 tried to figure out his shifting preferences (assuming sport mode) ... it wasn't intuitive enough. How long did he even drive it?... because I'd think that may take at least a little time for AI to truly hone in on preferences. Also, high end power didn't feel enough...but understood it was a trade off for rear wheel drive in which they thought Cadillac had nailed it. Everything else was glowing and they wrote more about the character of 5BW's performance than either of the other two.

I think that even if they had the 6mt they would have said something like that it felt great, but it just wasn't quick enough for them. The decision was made before the article was even written.
 
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dribs15 said:
M5C: So they didn't like the steering wheel, the feel of the brake pedal, the seats, the interface; plus they debated about the new tires feeling great, but not testing out as well as prior tires. .. it felt like they had gripes most of that portion besides literally the last 2 sentences.
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It reminds me of a Smoking Tire review of the BMW M240i where they said apart from the looks, steering, brakes, weight, interior room and lack of a manual transmission the new M240i is a good sports sedan :ROFLMAO:
The expectations are different between BMW and Cadillac and their fanboys eat journalists alive 😬
 
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The comments made here are pretty much the same excuses the BMW fanboys make on their forum when the M5 loses against the BW. They made those comments when none of them had ever driven the BW.

Same applies here. I doubt anyone here has driven an M5CS (I haven’t even seen one, but would love to have a go in one). It sounds like it’s an extremely special car. It’s beaten the BW in the EVO and now MT comparisons. Like I said before on this thread, be prepared for the BW to lose more comparisons in the future, it’s gonna happen. It doesn’t mean your BW is now worse that the hype has died down. It’s the same car.
 
565565 said:
The comments made here are pretty much the same excuses the BMW fanboys make on their forum when the M5 loses against the BW. They made those comments when none of them had ever driven the BW.

Same applies here. I doubt anyone here has driven an M5CS (I haven’t even seen one, but would love to have a go in one). It sounds like it’s an extremely special car. It’s beaten the BW in the EVO and now MT comparisons. Like I said before on this thread, be prepared for the BW to lose more comparisons in the future, it’s gonna happen. It doesn’t mean your BW is now worse that the hype has died down. It’s the same car.
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1. Am a fan boy
2. Understand if another car wins... just support it with information on your review or sometimes they show how each category is rated. If you go by what is written, this review seemed to look more favorably on the gt63 besides its cold personality and rear window... but it came in 3rd.
 
I mean, honestly, based on the cost of each car the Cadillac should be last by a wide margin. The fact that its even close or in some of these comparisons actually is rated higher is actually quite impressive and somewhat embarrassing for BMW and MB IMO. I would take a 5BW + $40k (or $90k) in my pocket all day over either car. Sorry, there's a major point of dimensioning returns here IMO. Also, the major appeal to me and many others of the 5BW is the MT and the RWD. I was not even considering a 4 door sedan for my next 3rd car it was most likely going to be another sportscar or supercar. After seeing the 5BW on Jay Leno's Garage that took me down the 5BW rabbit hole. So kudos to Cadillac on that. They gave me a new car, with a MT, that is fun to drive, with great performance, that I can also pick my son up in daycare in for less than $100k.
 
565565 said:
The comments made here are pretty much the same excuses the BMW fanboys make on their forum when the M5 loses against the BW. They made those comments when none of them had ever driven the BW.

Same applies here. I doubt anyone here has driven an M5CS (I haven’t even seen one, but would love to have a go in one). It sounds like it’s an extremely special car. It’s beaten the BW in the EVO and now MT comparisons. Like I said before on this thread, be prepared for the BW to lose more comparisons in the future, it’s gonna happen. It doesn’t mean your BW is now worse that the hype has died down. It’s the same car.
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You certainly love playing this archetype and I respect what you're saying. I'm assuming we should all just get used to you saying it ad-nauseam?
 
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